There were 2 laws known as "Preservation" Acts passed in 1929.  One was an abortion law, and the other was an act to preserve copyrights.  But both relate to the United Kingdom.  Hmmm.  I guess the 2 obvious clues here don't seem to relate to each other. The mask reminds me of Mardi Gras in New Orleans.

I too get the feeling of New Orleans from the mask and arm.  I believe that is where the Preservation Jazz Hall is location.  The online picture looks very dark and flat, but is there any fine detail in the wood of the clock?

Hang on - isn't this the picture that goes with a verse that relates to Washington? I read somewhere that the mask in the picture relates to the J.F.K School for the performing arts. I'm getting more confused than ever now!

There is the JFK Center for the Performing Arts, but not a School.  But I didn't read that anywhere before.  The verse that supposedly relates to Washington was the one for Grant Park, Chicago --- the reference to Lincoln and Congress. The link below is the front of Preservation Hall in New Orleans --- the door looks similar to the top of the grandfather clock in Image 7, doesn't it?  Or are we just trying to "make it fit"? hxxp://neworleans.citysearch.com/profile/4428931/

Hey Steve, Egbert is correct in stating that V12 was once thought to be located in DC because of the "governmental" sound of the V.  It has since been connected with P5 and Grant Park, Chicago.

Since N.O. seems to be the focus here, I found City Park: hxxp://www.neworleanscitypark.com/Parks seem to be a great place to bury a casque.  The reason I thought City Park was a possible match is because located in the park is Storyland where there is Captain Hooks ship that kids can play on.  Cpt Hook is of course from Peter Pan and I thought the person on the clock face in the P resembled Peter Pan. Just some random ramblings........

Don't know if this is any help, but the famous peter pan statue in london has replica statues around the world. They are located in the following places: Newfoundland, New Jersey (USA), Perth (Western Australia), Toronto (Canada) and Brussels (Belgium).

Toronto huh?  There is a casque somewhere in Canada, could this be the one?

Even better, it is in Glenn Gould Park in Toronto, Canada!  :)

I believe this image falls under the following theme: December (12 o'clock) Turquoise Narcissus? Holly? Poinsettia? Paper White? French Theme (curious - New Orleans connection?) "Turquoise the Fays of France keep: stone Rare as a blue midsummer's day."

Interesting that there are numbers in all of the corners of the clock (19, 29, and 90) but one of them is covered by the mask.  Maybe relevant, maybe not.

I always thought the numbers on the corners of the clock refere to dates, the 2nd you would have to imply. It would be 1929, 1990. kind of like a grave stone.... of course this would imply that the person died, or whatever, after the book was published??

hey rob, that line also always reminded me of good ole Georgie.  He was buried at Westchester Hills Cemetery, NY. hxxp://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cg ... 20Gershwin other parts of this verse has lead me elsewhere however.

someone's roots are usually where they were born or grew up, not where they are buried.  Here's a starting point for reading about his childhood: hxxp://www.afamilyquilt.com/meredith/gershwin.htm

I thought the gryphon head, was a horse head, in fact there is a hitching post in front of preservation hall with a horse head on it: it can be seen in the picture of the band sitting out front. hxxp://www.preservationhall.com/hall.html Also here are some references that helped me tie this to verse 2: "As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours" (the clock in in image 7 is 15 sec afternoon) "gnomes admire Fays delight" (Tourquise the Fays of France keep: stone Rare as a blue midsummer's day.) from the litany of the jewels (page 20) "The namesakes meeting near this site" (the preservation hall band) Let me know what you think? anyone near new orleans?

Unknown: Does anybody have an idea about the gryphon (?) head and the fact that the checkerboard pattern is distorted at the bottom? What if the checkerboard is a chessboard? Could the horse be a chess knight?

Unknown: Interesting that there are numbers in all of the corners of the clock (19, 29, and 90) but one of them is covered by the mask.  Maybe relevant, maybe not. This is in no way right, but the first thing I assumed from these numbers was reading left to right--the year 1929, and similarly assuming the year 1990 on the bottom. There is no reason to do that, it was just a leap. And the Preservation thing matches up.

on January 22nd, 2004, 7:21am, The_Manley wrote:Also here are some references that helped me tie this to verse 2: "As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours" (the clock in in image 7 is 15 sec afternoon) "gnomes admire Fays delight" (Tourquise the Fays of France keep: stone Rare as a blue midsummer's day.) from the litany of the jewels (page 20) I spoke to Byron Priess once; I told him that I was looking for one of the casques in a location suggested by the Litany of the Jewels.  I'm pretty sure he said that the Litany is not part of the puzzle.  In other words, there aren't any actual clues in that poem; just the suggestion that there are twelve types of gems, associated with a place of origin.  I think it's supposed to make us notice that each image suggests a country and a type of gem. Quote:"The namesakes meeting near this site" (the preservation hall band) How is the Preservation Hall Jazz Band the "namesakes" of gnomes and fays?  I think this line is supposed to refer to something fairy-related, like if there was a band in the area called "The Sprites" or a sports team called "The Leprechauns" or  something.  Or maybe its something like that Peter Pan statue mentioned earlier, the one showing Peter and several fairies.

the Saints?

An observation- look at the clock face and the little rainbow shape above it. Is it my imagination, or is that a picture of a padlock. And if so, could the three numbers in the corners be the combination to said padlock?

well, according to the book, all the casques are buried.

This is true, but many preserves have combination locks on the gate, where only invited parties are given the combination.

FYI, Fox has pointed out in another thread that 29 and 90 are the latitude/longitude coordinates of New Orleans.  This definitely refers to Preservation Hall.

Yes, Egbert, I am convinced this one is in NO, and somewhere around preservation hall. I will say though that there are not many open plots of ground there, perhaps near the river somewhere. I like the observation that the face of the clock looks like a lock. wilhouse

I believe the clock looks like the door on preservation hall.  Take a look at the picture on this page with the line of people out front: hxxp://www.preservationhall.com/main.html

Since it is beginning to look more and more like these casques were buried in parks (Grant Park-Chicago, Greek Garden/Park-Cleveland, possibly GGP-SF, possibly Hermann Park-Houston) we may want to consider the NO city park.  It doesnt appear to be too far from Preservation Hall.  Here is a map of the park's location in reference to Preservation Hall (thumbtack-address): hxxp://www.expedia.com/pub/agent.dllHere is a decent website map: hxxp://www.neworleanscitypark.com/directions.php I have always thought that the person on the clock looks like Peter Pan and there is a large Cpt Hooks ship that the kids can play on in Storyland. other interesting NO tidbits:  NO is known as the Crescent City (the night sky in P8 is in the shape of a crescent)....also, The great chess master Paul Morphy was born in the house at 1113 Chartres St. in the French Quarter. Today, the house is a museum, and goes by the name the Beauregard House, for the Confederate General. P. G. T. Beauregard, who also lived there.(could this be referencing the chessboard pattern w/ knight as background?)

close up of "bell flower": There are 27 full stars ... and 3 partial stars: On the clock hand there looks like an "8" and some other characters in there: That flying guy seems to be looking at some numbers? A "311"?  Not sure. And on the bottom right hand corner (with the brightness WAY up) the chess board gets strange and a funny horse head is there:

The bell shaped flower is the narcissus, the birth flower of December. hxxp://nakahara.ac/flower/flower-large/narcissus.jpgI dont believe the bell shape is a clue since that is the normal shape of the flower. 27 stars + 3 partials may be something to look into. I think the 8 you see are just the decorations on the hands of the clock. 311?  where do you get those numbers?  if anything, our Peter Pan is looking towards the 9 (IX). Still curious as to why the chess board bends in the lower right corner.  We are pretty sure the horse represents either the Knight in chess or someone (dont remember who) found a horses hitching post quite similar outside of Preservation Hall.

Unknown: Still curious as to why the chess board bends in the lower right corner. I was thinking about that too.  My guess is that it is referring to a name of a road or place, like "Boardbend" or "Checkertwist."  Something like that.

There is a Diagonal Dr. running through the NOCP.  But now I am beggining to wonder if this is our park.  As quoted:  "City Park in New Orleans is such an example. Developed in the 1930's as a garden for the public, it saw decades of neglect and economic hardship until 1985 when Gen Trimble had a dream not only to restore New Orleans City Park, but to also expand its mission." Now, if the casque was buried there, it would have been buried in '80,'81 or before.  This apperantly was when the park probably wasnt as beautiful and unkempt.  Even if the casque was buried in an ugly park, major renovations occured in '85. hmmmm

Unknown: I think the 8 you see are just the decorations on the hands of the clock. I subscribe to the theory that the artist had to have a reason to paint such intricate lines on the hour hand.  Maybe they resemble the spikes along a fence such as this one: hxxp://www.thewebsister.com/images/ricefence.jpg That is at the home of Ann Rice in New Orleans.  (She did not live there at the time of our book, but the house was certainly there.  Anyway, this is just an example.) The spikes along the fence are a close match, and the skulls below might even be represented by the mardi gras mask in our image.  Anyway, it's just a suggestion.

It has been known to happen in the past...I may be wrong, but I just think the face of the clock is simply a decorative clock ie....  hxxp://web.onetel.net.uk/~afleming/large/clock-face1.jpg but then again.......  :D

I believe it has been posted before but couldnt the mask be that of the Tragedy/Comedy masks?  If so, this would be THALIA....."To the people of New Orleans they are street names, often mispronounced.  In Greek mythology the nine Muses were the daughters of Zeus. Their mother is Mnemosyne, the goddess of memory.  Initially, the Muses didn't have personalities or names, but later they were all assigned names and specific virtues. Clio was the Muse of history, Urania of astronomy, Euterpe of lyric poetry, Polyhymnia of songs to the gods, Melpomene of tragedy, Thalia of comedy, Terpsichore of dance, Calliope of epic poetry, and Erato of love poetry." Could we be looking for something on Thalia St?  Parts of the street do run quite close to the French Quarter. Purple is the main color of the Mardi Gras (along with green & gold).  The MG King, Rex, usually wears purple so I'm thinking the arm holding the mask in the P is that of Rex.

The Horse in the checkerboard looks pretty fierce, more like a wolf to me.  And the Peter Pan looks more like a jockey. --Johann

a griffon head is a falcon it looks more like a dragon head to me

The griffin is a mythical creature with the face, beak, talons and wings of an eagle and the body of a lion. hxxp://www.thanasis.com/griffin.htm wilhouse

I stand corrected. I meant Hippogriff but either way a griffin doesn't have a horses head still looks like a dragons head to me...

Observations: --On the clock hand, above the "8" is what appears to be an anchor-shape. --Around the clock face, just outside of the circular two-sided arrow (which points to "Preservation"), there are elongated rectangles (ie-a sectioned circle).  It is not perfectly marked.  A shaded square is missing next to the left arrow.  Lines are missing to each side of the dark mark near the 3:00 position. --There are some markings on the wood beneath the brass-like square that holds the clock face.  These markings are between the mask and the "90."  (neVar: help?) --There is something (marking?) on the corner of the right side of the entire clock, the lower right corner of the lower wooden arch. --The second-hand points to 3, and that could be an 8 on the long-hand.  That could make a 38.  Then, as we know, we have a 90 in the lower right corner.  Then considering the 19 and the 29: 1+9=9, +29=38.  We would then have 38 and 90, the lat/lon for St. Louis, which has the largest Mardi Gras celebration outside of New Orleans.  (OK, you're more than welcome to ignore this last observation, even laugh at it, but it is just an insane idea). --Johann

Johann Wrote: "--On the clock hand, above the "8" is what appears to be an anchor-shape."  Yep. I see that, now.  From left to right and then bottom I (a) highlighted the roman numbers behind the clock hands, (b) removed them, and (c) extrapolated what might be the clock hands. In researching Clock Hands I came to this site - looking to see if this is a standard clock-hand.  It is not. hxxp://www.clock-keys.com/pdf/Categories/HANDS&RE.PDF Johann Wrote: "Around the clock face, just outside of the circular two-sided arrow (which points to "Preservation"), there are elongated rectangles (ie-a sectioned circle).  It is not perfectly marked.  A shaded square is missing next to the left arrow.  Lines are missing to each side of the dark mark near the 3:00 position."  Yes. I see this: Johann Wrote:  "There are some markings on the wood beneath the brass-like square that holds the clock face.  These markings are between the mask and the "90."  " Indeed.  There are some markings there ----------- .  My problem is that I am working off of 300 dpi pictures; haven't got my book yet, when I do, I'll scan in at something higher.

I am still the naysayer stating that I think decorative clock hands come in all shapes, designs & sizes and still believe the hands of the clock to be just that, hands on a clock.  Now, what they are pointing to may be a different matter.  Only TIME will tell.

neVar-- Great work!  Thank you very much.  Regarding the markings near the 90, I meant lower than that, on the wood and more to the right.  But you have revealed some markings I had not seen before. --Johann

Here's a wild, contrary idea for what it's worth. St. Louis has the largest Mardi Gras outside of New Orleans.  It happens in Soulard, originally the French neighborhood and the oldest neighborhood in St. Louis (SE side, near the river).  It even has its own "Preservation Hall."  The Mardi Gras features the Mystic Crewe of Barkus parade in which people dress up their dogs.  (There is the barking dog/wolf in the pic.)  Far away from the vicinity is Fairview Park on N Grand Blvd where horse-racing formerly happened until outlawed.  (There is the jockey on the clock face. Yet, I explored Soulard and Fairview Park today and found nothing special in relation to any details of the pic. I am now skeptical about my idea.  Yet, I posted this so that all possibilities are considered.  Who is near New Orleans?  Anyone? --Johann

im wilhouse's son and everytime i see this picture the first thing i see is a square that is turned to the left, this block is 2 blocks up from the griffin or dragons head and 1 block left not sure what this means but it is just what i saw and no one else saw it

hmmm, 2 blocks up...1 block over....sounds like directions to me.  Find the site of the head, go 2 city blocks north, then 1 block east and viola!  And all along we have been calling them squares.  Yet another possibility to explore.

Ok, using this appx distance from Preservation Hall, you come to Jackson Square. www.civilwaralbum.com/louisiana/neworleans.htm at expediamaps.com search for Preservation Hall and zoom all the way in.  Notice how most of the city blocks around PH and JS are square...but JS is skewed like in the P. a side note:  for quite some time, I had always wondered if the casque sites were linked in any way.  For example...take a look at the name of the cathedral...another site?  Also, appx the same distance from PH in another direction leads you to the Hermann-Grima House......Hermann Park?  ramble ramble ramble.....

Does anyone see a large letter "B" in the square one up and one left of the horse's head?  The online image is too dark to make out, it sure looks like one in my book.

we need to find some photos of Jackson Square in 1981. Perhaps one of the shops featured the dragon head.  There are also posts around the square with heads on them. It's been a while since I've been there. wilhouse (the dad)

well, here is a good look at what Jackson Sq looks like now... hxxp://www.aero-data.com/obliques/new_orleans_fixed.jpg looks like those posts are all around the French Qrtr..not just near Preservation Hall hxxp://www.eveandersson.com/photos/phot ... oto_size=l arge ok, here is a stretch...seems like thats all we have to go on right now....but, looking at the above pic of JS & this other aerial shot of the statue: hxxp://www.sizeler.com/Portfolio/Other% ... .....could the curved rectangular shapes around the P clock face = the curved rectangular shaped bushes/(maybe benches) around the statue?

hmm, it seems like JS holds some pretty unique items/bldgs. -St Louis Cathedral is the "oldest" continuously active cathedral in the United States. -the equestrian statue was the "first" in the nation, constructed by Clark Mills in 1856 -& believe it or not, on the second floor of the Cabildo (now a part of the Louisiana State Museum is the bronze death mask of Napoleon hxxp://www.wm.edu/oieahc/conferences/9t ... s/mask.jpg (ok, again not a perfect match but it places a Mask in the area).

There are markings on other squares/blocks: 1) a v-like mark with tiny triangular marks on top: dark square beneath light square at left lower edge of wood molding of clock 2) two diagonal lines in dark square at right lower edge of wood molding of clock 3) small L in dark square one up and two to the right of horse/dog/gryphon.  This square is at edge of pic. I don't know if the online images show these marks. Those with the book, please check carefully and tell us whether or not I am "seeing things." --Johann

neVar - some magic please? wilhouse

I seemed to also notice some of these marks all of a sudden after studying every other aspect of this P.  One that I dont think johann mentioned is located in a purple square adjacent to the left edge of the clock, 2 squares up from the (lack of a better word) mantle section of the clock.  I would sure love to see this image blown up.  I could swear it looks like a statue of a standing man..almost like a knight or even Oscar (the academy awards).  Am I seeing things....?

fox, we see something too, here. and purple is mardi gras color. wilhouse

purple is indeed the major color for mardi gras.  Posted (i believe) in this thread are many other confirmers for mardi gras.  I think we will be hard pressed to put this P with another city....now lets just find the correct V.  How could P7 = anything but NO? I really think that "image" I mentioned above is probably a statue.  All we need to do is get a good blow up of it and then find the original....then the N.O. casque will be close at hand.

Unknown: Ok, using this appx distance from Preservation Hall, you come to Jackson Square. www.civilwaralbum.com/louisiana/neworleans.htm probably completely random, and flying in the face of all the work done on P8/V1, but the statue in the upper left image (the Grand Army of the Republic Memorial at Chalmette Cemetery) seems to have three things slight (and winged?) in the center of 4 alike (cannons)

OK, I'll kick on my scanner (I just got the book).  Fox gave this link: hxxp://www.civilwaralbum.com/louisiana/neworleans.htm But, (I don't see it mentioned here) , if you scroll down to the bottom and see this little paragraph on the right: "Inscription: cut in the base of the statue which was done under orders of Union general Ben Butler after the surrender of New Orleans" here is that link: hxxp://www.civilwaralbum.com/louisiana/neworleans6.htm Good work everyone!

wilhouse: Up two blocks and over: johann: (1) johann: (2) johann: (3) Fox: And I noticed in the lower part of this scan (1200 dpi) what seemed like a smiliey face.  Seeing things? Fox: (noted several places on the map arrows ) and also... how the clock face is like the shape of the square (which is really a circle) (I changed the perspective of the picture to match the clock face)

Thats good! I believe every pix has at least one mapview or ariel representation hidden in it. I think someone mentioned it before but I was wondering if any of the wierd shaped blocks match outlines of any city blocks....

hehehe looks good!

Unknown: I think someone mentioned it before but I was wondering if any of the wierd shaped blocks match outlines of any city blocks.... yeah falcon, I had commented on the fact that most of the city blocks in the area are pretty much square as in the P except for the park, which is a little a skew like the horse-square in P.

Hello all. I just joined yesterday, after reading the article about Egbert in the Cleveland Plain Dealer this past Sunday. Is there an FAQ on The Secret? It would be nice to have all the theories and information collected in one place. Of course, much of it is onjecture, so maybe that wouldn't be a good idea. My wife has latched on to P7, so I've been studying that one and reading all the past posts regarding it, and here are some things I've come up with (with quotes from old posts above) >(10/16/03)Interesting that there are numbers in all of the corners of the clock (19, 29, and >90) but one of them is covered by the mask.  Maybe relevant, maybe not. This may be reaching, but 90 minus 29 is 61. Combine that with the 19 and you have 1961, the year the Preservation Hall was founded. >(5/27/04)And on the bottom right hand corner (with the brightness WAY up) the chess >board gets strange and a funny horse head is there: I don't think it's a horse: horses aren't usually shown with their mouths open that far. >(5/27/04)I think the 8 you see are just the decorations on the hands of the clock Turning it upside-down, it looks a bit like a nude woman. Yes, my mind is in the gutter. >(5/27/04)Purple is the main color of the Mardi Gras (along with green & gold).  The MG >King, Rex, usually wears purple so I'm thinking the arm holding the mask in the P is that of >Rex. But the hand has long, ragged nails. Wouldn't a king take better care of his nails? >(6/3/04)hmmm, 2 blocks up...1 block over....sounds like directions to me.  Find the site of the head, go >2 city blocks north, then 1 block east and viola!  And all along we have been calling them >squares.  Yet another possibility to explore. Unfortunately, the streets near Preservation Hall run diagonally. Great idea, though, and I think it has some merit. Perhaps the squares are a map. >(6/3/04)at expediamaps.com search for Preservation Hall and zoom all the way in.  Notice >how most of the city blocks around PH and JS are square...but JS is skewed like in the P. The MapQuest map shows Jackson Square as square, but the aerial picture posted by neVar really cinched it for me. I just took a look at the LA state flag. It features a mama pelican feeding her three babies... "Three winged and slight"? But as I read further, she's tearing off piece of herself to feed to her babies!!! What kind of flag is that?!?!? Keep up the good work! Scott

Medieval bestiaries expressed the folk belief (science to them) that the mother pelican fed her young that way, dripping blood and all.  This was allegorically applied to Christ and the Eucharistic doctrine.  (Christ as the mother pelican, of course.) This post probably does not help the hunt any (as far as I can see). --Johann

There is something about this image that bothers me. The mask is a clear giveaway for New Orleans. Its to easy. I know sounds silly. When I was looking into something else I came across the Daughters of the American Revolution. The word "Preservation" came up many times. Their colors are that off light blue and red. Its just a thought.

Oh, and here is alittle tibit on clocks I came across. Like many public clocks, the Roman numerals "IIII" are used instead of the usual "IV", a tradition that dates back to early cathedrals in England.

The VIII doesn't look right.  Look at it when it is rightside up, as you would look at any of the other numbers by turning the face of the clock.  The part of the III which we see slants diagonally. Also, It seems that PRESERVATION is deliberately drawn so that the hour hand splits the V.  Count the number of block letters to each side of the hour hand, the I taking up less space, of course.  It is like this: PRESER (6 letters)     V     ATION (4&1/2 letters since the I) --Johann

Unknown: There is something about this image that bothers me. The mask is a clear giveaway for New Orleans. Its to easy. I know sounds silly. When I was looking into something else I came across the Daughters of the American Revolution. The word "Preservation" came up many times. Their colors are that off light blue and red. Its just a thought. I thought that too. It seemed much to obvious, compared to the other images. What if the mask wasn't a Mardi Gras mask at all, but the mask for Comedy? That's what I thought when I first saw it, since Mardi Gras masks are usually quite ornate. My feeling is that there should be something else in the picture that indicates the state. E.g., P4 has an outline of Ohio, P6 has an outline of Florida. So, though New Orleans seems like the obvious choice, let's not get too focusses on N.O. that we discount the possibility that it's somewhere else entirely. Scott

OK this is reaching - I admit it. but I figured if this was Louisiana it would have either the map of the state in the picture or the Lat/Lon I don't believe anybody found a lat/lon connection in this pix (I could be wrong, correct me if I am) so I figured somewhere in here must be a state map. what do you think?

I like the horse head as the Louisiana map, but we also have the longitude and latitude in the numbers 29 and 90 on the clock.

I think that we can be (fairly) sure that this P is NO...with the lat/lon on the clock & now with the possible map = head that falcon found.  I do like that connection falcon...nice find.  Now where oh where in NO do we look?  I like the Jackson Square theory but who the heck knows.  At least it looks like we may be zero-ing in on another find.

If this pic is for NO, then it should contain clues indicating the city and the location of the casque within the city. We have at least two clues for the city:  the horse head map of Louisiana and the long/lat.  What about the location?  Is "Preservation" a location clue?  Do we agree that the circle on the clock face matches the circle in Jackson Sq?  What about the curve in the checkerboard pattern?  The moon in the clock could indicate the Moon Walk by the Mississippi River. All the location clues seem to indicate the French Quarter area. Maybe we should each take a verse, try to match it with sites in the French Quarter and report back to the group.

Does anyone have an insight regarding the position of the moon?  Those grandfather clocks rotate the sun and the moon on a dial over the clock face. --Johann

frishkie, dont forget about "Preservation" on the clock probably pointing to Preservation Hall in the French Quarter. The masque (especially held by the handle) is most likley a mardi gras masque. The hand in purple is most likely that of the mardi gras King Rex who dresses in purple. I think the arched/crescent shape between the night sky and the tourquoise represents The Crescent City - N.O. I like falcons find of the head = state outline. I have also fealt that it is indeed a horse/rook on the squared background-chessboard... which may point to Paul Morphy, one of the all time best chess players. hxxp://www.academicchess.com/Focus/Morp ... ybio.shtml johann, I never even thought of that.  I have one of those watches which has the sun/moon circle over the dial.  So, with the hands on 12 and the sky showing the moon, it would be midnight instead of afternoon.  Now, how does midnight tie into anything?

it's a stretch, but there is an old Jazz song called New Orleans Midnight. wilhouse

I dont think that is a stretch at all.  I am beginning to think there are many items/objects that are probably being overlooked which may lead us in the right direction..  ie...look at my post under P4.

Someone please confirm or deny my sanity here. Look at the 19 on the clock and tilt your head to the left just a little. Does 83 pop out of the flower under the 19?

Hi: I live in NO if anyone needs help

glad to hear it trainor.  You will come in quite handy when the casque IS finally found in N.O.   Now, will someone please find a casque in NM  :D Trainor, how do you feel about the various theories of N.O.?  Do any of them hold promise?  My gut still says somewhere around Jackson Square...maybe you could check that out.

No offense to Falcon, but I've always liked Verse 7 for the NO picture. wilhouse

No offense taken cause until its used to find a treasure -its all theories... but just curious, if you think V7 is NO, Which one is SF?

I honestly don't know. wilhouse

could the "peter pan" on the clock just be another reference for LA?  The author of PP is James Barre and not far from New Orleans is Port Barre, LA.  Just some more grasping to bandy about.

come on guys...let's get this one.  It is obviously N.O. but what in the P is an actual object at the site?  The clock?  The mask? or maybe just the arch of the clock being a nearby doorway, or the overhead shot of an outdoor auditorium or curved wallway in a park.  I am still convinced the checkered background as well as the horse head are simply referring to Morphy: hxxp://library.thinkquest.org/10746/morphy.html

That Morphy idea is a good point.  But why must we keep insisting that that is Peter Pan?  He is wearing a baseball-like cap and seems more of a jockey with those socks and capri-style pants, or perhaps he is wearing an old baseball uniform.

Unknown: I am still convinced the checkered background as well as the horse head are simply referring to Morphy: I thought the horse head was just a map of Louisianna.

Just an idea: could the Monument to the Immigrant have any relevance? www.phototour.com/echtml/immigrant_1621.html

Trainor - I thought when I was in NO once that I noticed around jackson square that there were stations where you could tie up horses, that were statues of jockeys (the equivalent of lawn jockeys for the street) can you verify? wilhouse

Wilhouse: The only post I have seen are in the French Quarter and they are like the ones in the pictures someone put up on this board.  They have a horse's head at the top and are old. I feel that verse 5 goes with Picture 7.  Without giving too much away, for one, Preservation Hall as you all know is on St Peter street in the quarter.  I think this maybe either a starting point, two blocks over and one up or visa versa.  Or just a clue as to the general area.  There is a arc of lights nearby, but it is not in the heart of the quarter.  It correlates to the theme of Preservation Hall.  There are several other things mentioned in Verse 5 which could be in this area. Anyone else concluded that verse 5 goes with New Orleans? I have checked out one area and need to get permission to dig but it still needs further investigation. Trainor

Trainor, I have always thought that verse 7 fit this well, even though falcon has some pretty convincing finds that it is san francisco. take a look at my posts on verse 7 and see what you think. please feel free to post your thoughts on verse 5. we have not had one incident of anyone "stealing" a treasure away. If you are right, I don't think anyone will try to jump in ahead of you. wilhouse

The "horse" looks somewhat angry.

Perhaps the "horse" is also a dragon="dragoon": a cavalryman, as Jackson is fiercely mounted in the square.

I do not have the book.  Are there different swirling colors on the wrist holding the mask?  What design does it appear to be?  And what is on the bottom right corner of the clock, it looks like a chip. Trainor

There are wrinkles on the wrist, and I am not sure what the pattern is.  I have wondered about it myself. I'm not sure what you mean by the lower corner clock chip.  Can you be more specific?  I have a copy of the book and may be able to help.

Johann: I think that what I am seeing is just part of the light color square and it seems a brighter blue then the rest.  What are the actual colors of these squares, its hard to tell on the computer? THX Trainor

Unknown: probably completely random, and flying in the face of all the work done on P8/V1, but the statue in the upper left image (the Grand Army of the Republic Memorial at Chalmette Cemetery) seems to have three things slight (and winged?) in the center of 4 alike (cannons) So, are you certain that the image in one of the squares is from Chalmette Cemetary, or it just looks similar? Trainor

Hi Trainor, This was in response to a link to a photo of Jackson Square posted by Fox: hxxp://www.civilwaralbum.com/louisiana/neworleans.htm The picture of the statue at Chalmette Cemetery just happened to be on the same webpage, so probably it's not relevant. S9

Trainor-- The colors are light blue and a dark blue that is almost purple. Or, that is what the colors seem to me.

I do not know if this has any bearing on this image, but there is an old hotel, Hotel Monteleone, which is famous for its old grandfather clock in the lobby.  I have seen it before but I do not remember the details.  I will have to visit the hotel this weekend.  It is on Royal street in the French Quarter.  I still think that verse V goes with this image.  I need to investigate the area I was in again. Trainor

ok, here is a decent (ok, not so hot) pic of the clock in the lobby of the hotel trainor speaks of.  I suppose it looks like a decent match from this angle but then again, most grandfather clocks look similar.  Would love to see a close up of the clock's face though. ...look even the floors are checkered...wrong colors though  :P hxxp://www.quikbook.com/pics/2010_1532_lobby.jpg here is the hotel's location in the French Quarters...  there are a few parks quite nearby....our favorite Jackson Sq. being one of them.

Verse 5 makes sense.  If the casque is indeed buried in Jackson Square, I assume that in such a high-profile place one would have to "get permission to dig out."

The famous hotel is also home to the revolving Carousel Bar : hxxp://www.resortsgreathotels.com/artic ... ne3255.jpg looks like it could be a likely place to find our P's "peter pan".. ...?... & here is the hotel's homepage with a brief history and a nice little video tour that goes directly past the clock but it is still hard to see. hxxp://www.hotelmonteleone.com/

Tell me what you all think: We know that Preservation Hall is in New Orleans on St Peter St.  If you go over and up a couple of blocks is St. Ann St and if you look down the street, at the end at Rampart St you will see an arc or arch of lights (at night) which is the Armstrong Park main entrance.  Named for Louis Armstrong who got his start in jazz here and played at PH and other halls.  Rampart also means citadel and this location was outside of the walls of the quarter at one time. There is a standing statue of Louis Armstrong in the park.  Also Armstrong could mean the astronaut who flew to the moon, a wingless bird, the eagle took him there.   There is the municipal auditorium right there, which is where all of the Mardi Gras balls where once held.  There is Congo Square there, which could be the reason for all the squares in the picture.  Also, there is an address of 222 a few blocks away on Rampart street.  Jazz 's root where here at Congo Square.  There are a few huge oak trees too which maybe referenced by the roots extended and member of a forest.  I have only looked here one time and did not look all around.  Also, have emailed to get permission to dig, but no reply as of yet.

Guys, based on the latest information on image 1, I am more convinced that image 1 and verse 7 go together.  I was the stalwart that 7 and 7 were linked, but reading the latest on the image 1 thread I am not so sure. Let's see if we can figure out which verse this might be if it's not 7. wilhouse

Thats hilarious as I was finally coming around to your point of view. - the jackson gate and the three towers on the church were very compelling. That and its not by the totem pole in GGpark... (or if it was it got pasted by the trencher...

In my thread above, I meant to say Apollo 11 could be the wingless bird, the Eagle was the lunar module.  Let me know what you think of my thread above a couple of responses above.  I failed to say that Image 7 may go with Verse V.  Maybe the V in Preservation is the link. Maybe the arm is a clue too, for Armstrong Park and weights in Verse V. Let me also add that the part of the grandfather clock which is not shown are the weights and chains. Trainor

Falcon, we're an odd pair, that's for sure. I was finally seeing your way!! All I can say is AT LEAST one of the two is wrong, so we need to figure out which one. wilhouse

Jambone, that is stating the obvious but I do not think it has been posted here.  How could we overlook that?  That is definitely a knights move in chess.  Now, are there any chess aficianados (damn that is hard to spell  :-/ ) that know if this particular move has a specific name or term?

Wow.  How did I miss it being a knight? I need to go back to sleep. Here's a restaurant I found in the FQ that almost relates to chess, it's probably just a reach, but hey, sometimes reaches work. hxxp://www.brennansneworleans.com/royalstreet.html This restaurant was owned by the father of a famous chess player, and the aritcle in the link discusses how there is even a full size chess board painted on the floor inside. Just another (reaching) thought. ~~Tracy

oh, this is too bizarre. Morphy's father owned the building Brennan's is in!! I have been there many times. there is a courtyard area inside. hard to believe the casque is buried in there, but it is all tying together.  OR perhaps this is just a landmark for the image in which to work off of.  In 1982, Brennans was no where near as famous as it is now. wilhouse

Actually I think the guy who got upset and then deleted all his old posts before he left the board, had noticed the chesspiece/weired square move- but it never went past that. This is cool, is there a park nearby? I can't imagine digging a whole in a restaraunt courtyard and nobody saying anything.

No, I do not believe that this is the location. There's no way we're going to be able to go in and dig up the courtyard. I think this is only a clue to lead us on the right path. The restaurant is on a busy street. Not far from Grant park, not far from the Mississippi. We HAVE to figure out what the right verse is. wilhouse

Grant Park?  Grant Park was in Chicago where the casque was found.  Is there a Grant Prk in NO as well?  What happend to Jackson Sq?

BLAH. Brain freeze. Jackson Square. wilhouse

darn you wilhouse...I thought you might have just discovered a tie in that has until now, been overlooked.

Perhaps we should keep in mind the "get permission to dig out" verse.  It would tell us something about the location, different from all the other locations that do not require permission (at least not at the time of the burial).

Perhaps more Mardi Gras references -- The "Peter Pan" image on the clock looks to me like a Harlequin image (one checkered pant leg longer than the other). The mask is also considered a Harlequin mask.

"From France came the sturdy seafaring Korreds of Brittany, the nomadic, shape-shifting Lutins of Normandy, Dames Blanches and Dames Vertes, coquettish maidens from the river valleys or the Aquitaine, Loups Garoux from the forests." I have always thought, like every one else, that this pix is definitely NO.  In looking at the front part of the book, the narrative sections before the pictures and verses you can find sections on The Passage, The Litany, and The Vanishing.  The Passage section is the most interesting in that there are a number of drawings in the borders that have to do with our hunt.  On page 13, a werewolf can be seen in the bottom left corner standing on the shore.  His shirt looks awfully familiar.  Loups Garoux is French for werewolf.  The small dog-horse-state outline-bear image in the lower right hand corner of image 7, has always looked like a wolf to me.  The arm that holds the mask is not quite human (the hair on its arm, the broken long nails).  The full moon rising at midnight on the clock, just feels like werewolf lore.  I have done a number of searches for werewolves, and recently loups garoux with new orleans, no luck.  But what if it is simplier than that:  Wolf + NO  ???? Loyola University Wolfpack ??.  There are a few verses that could relate to a college campus or law school.  V3 (coliseum with metal walls);  V7 (Education and Justice).  Additionally V7's Twain's attention may indicate the Mississippi river itself.  Will do more researching on this. Hope everyone had a great holiday.  Happy New Year and Happy Year Hunting!  :)

Ok, here are my notes on image 7: Dec –P 7, 12 o’clock, turquoise, narcissus. In the Litany of the Jewels it says, “Turquoise the Fays of France keep: stone rare as a blue midsummer day.” Here, we have the French connection. Just a wild hunch leads me to The Citadel I think it is in New Orleans. First, the mask on a stick seems to be a Mardi gras reference. Second, the word ‘Preservation’ could be a reference to Preservation Hall, a famous jazz club. (Located at 726 St. Peter St., one block off of Canal St). Historic Preservation Hall in New Orleans, La. was built around 1750 in the French Quarter and was used as a residence, tavern and art gallery before several jazz buffs took over the building. Third, there was a famous store in New Orleans that people would refer to as in ‘meet me under the clock at Holmes.’  The D.H. Holmes Clock store, located at 800 Iberville St (according to Mapquest, exactly .53 miles or one minute from the aforementioned jazz club) closed in 1989 and has since become the Chateau Sonesta Hotel where they are said to be considering replacing the old marquee and clock. When I googled ‘Holmes clock’ I got a photo of the EXACT SAME CLOCK as in the picture. Again, I have photos, but I do not know how to post them.  :-[

I went looking for pics of this clock, and this is the one I kept finding. Everytime I ran "d h holmes clock" or "meet under clock" or NO clock, it was this same pic by different people. I'm confused? ???? hxxp://www2.tltc.ttu.edu/qualin/ignatius/Clock.htm

The picture you link to is the actual clock on Canal Street. I think the reasoning is that the picture I found is of a "Holmes Clock", a type of antique grandfather clock. If you can identify the type of clock from the painting, that gives you the clue Holmes + clock, which would lead you to canal street in New Orleans. From there, I followed some clues and actually had a path traced out on a map. Louis Armstrong Park.

I am such a spaz. I found a link to the picture of the clock from my old notes. The website is kaput, but you can still view the picture. I believe it is the one the artist used as a model. hxxp://www.antique-english-clocks-and-b ... 2818lg.jpg Please let me know if this link does not work for you. I have the picture saved and I can host it temporarily on my website.

Alll very interesting. The knights move I think was mentioned by that guy who deleted all his posts. It always made me thing of that game...I think its called knight's chess where you take one knight and move it to each square once and only once. Very tough with only one solution.  ;)

Hi all… this is my first post here and I’d like to present a (very) contrarian theory on this pic. First of all, I got this book over 20 years ago. It took me all of about ten minutes to be sure, as you are, that this pic represented New Orleans. As this thread has discussed, the reasons are clear and numerous. And that in itself is enough to make me, now older and wiser, think that this pic *can’t* be N.O.: if everything else in the book is so difficult and deceitful, why would this one be so obvious? So I’ve been pondering a new theory that is flawed but I think worth a thought or two. I began by counting the stars (30, including the partials). Guessing that this may tie back to states’ entry order into the union, I found that the 30th state is Wisconsin. Wisconsin also sits on 90 degrees longitude, a number from the pic. For the latitude, I simply added the two upper numbers to get 48. (Yes, I know that’s arbitrary.) Anyway, 48 degrees latitude goes just north of Wisconsin, through an island in Lake Superior: Isle Royale. Isle Royale (notice the French name) is a National Park, though the least-visited one in the country. It was protected under the National Wilderness PRESERVATION System in 1976. It is famous for being home to a good number of wild wolves (a possible tie-in to the figure on the wallpaper). And when I pulled up a map of the island and found a “Twelve O’Clock Point” on the north shore – the same times as in the picture - I started getting a little excited. Also, Isle Royale was selected in 1981 for the BioSphere project and remains a center for scientific study. Stretching for a connection, I wondered if Preiss possibly heard about Isle Royale the Biosphere when planning the book and thought it might make a challenging puzzle ground. Anyway, as I said, I was stretching. As I dug deeper, though, the theory unraveled. First of all, while Isle Royale isn’t far from Wisconsin, it’s actually part of Michigan. (Michigan is the 26th state, and even if you exclude the partial stars you still have 27.) Also, the island is closer to 89 longitude than 90. Finally, after a lot of research and looking through hundreds of pictures of the island, I simply couldn’t find a prominent landmark that I could tie back in any way to the image or even the verses. (The back of the light within one of the island’s lighthouses has 12 supports configured like the hours around a clockface, but it in no way resembles the one in the pic.) So I welcome comments from any of you who may be more familiar with the island than I am, or anyone who can make some other connection that I missed. But I mostly wanted to extend to you my belief that there’s more to this picture than the New Orleans references that are way too overtly obvious for my blood. Thanks for your time, Matt

Lets not underestimate obvious The chicago picture contains not only The Chicago water tower plain as day but also  a cubs logo....

oh and just curious has anybody ever seen a grandfatlher clock with a second hand, doesn't the cloock actually say 15 seconds after 12?

In my opinion, the Cubs logo is by no means obvious, and I wouldn't know the Chicago water tower unless I lived there. On the other hand, I feel that the clues pointing to N.O. in pic 7 are entirely more obvious. The mask, the word "preservation" for Preservation Hall, and -- most blatantly -- the lat/long numbers which he makes no effort to conceal. I'm convinced that Preiss either wanted to throw in an easy one or is intentionally yanking our collective chains. Given that only two have been found in 22 years, I'm willing to give him the benefit of that doubt that he knows how to fool people. Matt

Some observations: I looked at this entire thread, and there has been some good work done.  A few things for consideration:  the checkerboard in the background may not be a wall.  My thought is that it is fabric and thus the warping (furling) of the boards.  The thing in my mind does not look like any kind of horse I've seen.  To me it is a bird of some sort (eagle or hawk) or a crude dragon.  I couldn't really tie a flag into my theory, though. Also, there are marks in the three colored tiles above the creature in the tile.  The 'L' is pretty obvious, but the other two I'm having a hard time with.  One looks like a lower case 'd' and the third one I have no idea. I spent a considerable amount of time on the mask.  It looks so much like Louis Armstrong in his younger days, it's uncanny.  Look at www.time.com/time/time100/artists/profi ... trong.html But the thing is, this mask is SO plain.  Why?  Most masks, especially for Mardi Gras, are decorated.  But this is plain.  My first thought was  "it looks like a death mask."    But Armstrong is buried in NY.  However, one famous death mask is in New Orleans:  Napoleon.  It at the Cabildo on 701 Chartres.  Could this be a possible tie-in? Finally, the guy in the clock.  I originally thought he was a jockey, but after looking at pictures, it doesn't make any sense.  He doesn't have the boots.  However, he is somewhat like the old time baseball players, who used to wear similar stockings and even ties.  Baseball hall of fame is quite an interesting web site, BTW.  More interesting, though is that his 'rear' is quite pronounced.  Doesn't make sense until you look at the outline:  it is just like the arch above 'preservation'.  Don't know what to make of that. ABQRAM

I was pretty sure the 'dragon' was a outline of louisianna like the cleveland picture contained an outline of ohio....

Malted, that's another reason I *originally* thought it was N.O., and also why I no longer think it is. His hidden pictures are hidden well... maybe others saw it, but never saw the Ohio outline until I found out about the find. If you ask me, there are too many obvious pointers to New Orleans. My money (which is none, of course) says it's anywhere but there. Matt

mxb, I have to say I disagree.  If we discounted all the obvious pointers to every picture I don't think we'd have anything at all. As for being obvious, it hasn't helped us determine which verse is tied to this, or really gotten us any closer. I still believe this is NO, but without the verse, we can't go anywhere at all. wilhouse

Well, I'm all for disagreement... that what makes forums like this all the more valuable. The odds of getting something right are a lot higher when there are a lot of differing voices heard from. Anyway, my main reason for thinking it's not N.O., besides the oddly visible state outline, are the lat/long numbers. In no other picture are numbers that are (or are believed to be) lat/long numbers so blatantly displayed. Pic 4 (Cleveland) had the l/l numbers visible, but they were masked by the fact that they were in the engraved years. In my opinion, if the l/l numbers were real, they wouldn't be so overtly displayed. Also, don't forget that N.O. *isn't* at 90 and 29... it's at 90 and 30. Since he's not trying to disguise the numbers in the pic, why would he use a number that's simply wrong? Last thing on this and then I'll shut up. I've read through the posts on pic 4 before Egbert found it. Seems like most posters to this forum, including Egbert, were convinced it was Philly (as I was) because of the somewhat obvious "L Bell" reference. You can bet that Preiss did that on purpose and it worked. In my view, it's working again on this pic. Now, I have no idea if my Isle Royale theory is any good, and I would tend to suspect that it has a few too many holes. But I think we need to start thinking outside the box on this one. Respectfully, Matt

I don't know, this may be too obvious. I believe the figure on the clock face is a harlequin figure, the mask is a harlequin mask, and the pattern on the wall is a harlequin pattern (though usually diamonds, not squares). So the keyword (for me) seems to be harlequin .  Besides the obvious Mardi Gras reference, there just happens to be a Harlequin Park in New Orleans. What do you think?

For the record, Harlequin Park in New Orleans is on Jewel Street on one side and Turquoise Street on the other.  The other streets in the area are also named after gems.

while it's not as obvious as in some pics, Image 8 in the trees clearly shows the lat/long of Houston (95/30). here's the link hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/yabb/cg ... 9&start=30 wilhouse

A couple more thoughts on this image -- Might the clock face indicate direction rather than time?  The 'twelve o'clock' position meaning directly ahead.  Someone mentioned what looks like a second hand on the clock.  I believe it is the alarm hand.  This is how the alarm time was set on older clocks (do grandfather clocks have alarms?).  Why is it set at three o'clock?  Direction again? Also the 19, 29, and 90 MIGHT indicate feet or paces in the given directions.  Go straight for 19, turn right go 29, turn right again and go 90.

One other thing; the seconds hand points to III and the edge is the only one colored in.  There is definately a clue there, but I don't know what it means.... ABQRAM

as far as the lat lon being spot on or not. Pix 1 to me is undoubtedly San Franciscol The Lat and lon is actually Richmond. close enought that if you were reading Lat and Lon off of a Globe, its about what you'd get. Mind you in 1982 that was about the easiest way to get a lat and lon, prior to gps, and the internet... So far the pictures are pretty blatent, without a lot of red herrings - i.e the majority of the clues in the chicago picture points to chicago. The majority of the clues in the cleveland picture point to ohio, there were a couple ringers but in all the pictures but still, I mean everybody was sure pix 1 was SF before the lat/lon clues and the GGpark clues were found. it was just a look and feel thing, so far, look and feel of the pictures hasn't been a red herrring... and the look and feel of image 7 is definetly New Orleans...

Matt, how can you call the clues in the pictures blatant? Two jewels have been found in 22 years! How far has going with "the look and feel thing" gotten all of us? You don't know pic 1 is SF just as much as you don't know pic 7 is New Orleans. None of us do. And less that a year ago, the common expectation was that pic 4 was Philly. Yes, the clues in the Cleveland and Chicago picture point to their respective cities. They're supposed to. But they're anything but blatant. Look at pic 4: the Ohio outline is very subtle, as is the building outline in the trees. The lat/long numbers are evident, but they're buried in the years. The wall and fountain are specific to the park. Basically, what I'm saying is that this pic doesn't "scream out" Cleveland. Nor does the Chicago pic scream out Chicago. So all I'm saying is that we have to give BP some credit here. For 22 years, even through the advent of the Internet and forums like this, he's been able to keep us fooled. And I contend that a big part of it is his ability to get us thinking one way so that we overlook others. If the casque is in N.O., then I'm wrong and maybe going with the "gut feel" you get from a pic is correct. But two casques in 22 years? My gut says we need some new guts. Please don't take offense to anything I'm saying. You may very well be right. But I'd love to see all of these solved and all I'm trying to do here is foster new thoughts. Not necessarily rule the old ones out, but just drive new ones. Matt (B)

I too must disagree.  I think the images in P5 were very blatant.  Yes, the Water Tower, the lat/lon #s and please dont forget.....The Bowman....it does not get much more blatant than that. Now, before you begin by saying......I dont live in Chicago, therefor I would not know the Water tower or The Bowman.. believe it or not....most people also would not know about Preservation Hall in N.O. and/or would not immediately tie a clock with the sole word Preservation...to a hall. Dont get me wrong....I really like your alternative theory but I am still pretty much sold on this P being N.O.{along with P12 being NYC.....or is that too obvious as well?} yes...I know.. I was one of the many who were CONVINCED the clvlnd P was in the "keystone" state of PA  ::)

I always say til we find a casque, anythings possible. No offense taken at all - Still I'd never been to Chicago when the book first came out. and I recggnized the water tower- Course at the time I lived in DC so I was sure the Chicago verse was DC and it went with pix 12 oh well. I think there has been more progress on this book in the last 2 years than in the previous 20 combined.... Maltedfalcon

Thanks for the comments folks. I guess we all come at this from a different perspective. I've been to Chicago several times now and, if not for this book, wouldn't even know that a water tower existed there (much less know what it looks like). But 20 years ago, at 15 years old, I knew well that there was a Preservation Hall in NO and that the mask "felt like" mardi gras. Funny how upbringing chnages everything. Anyway, I see all your points but I'm going to stick to my belief that it's not NO. Hopefully we'll all one day know for sure! Matt

Quickie introduction: I still have my copy of The Secret that I bought when I was 11, and I can't believe that after all this time only 2 treasures have been found. I loved reading Egbert's story about finding the Cleveland casque, and I hope other casques will be found! I'll be glad to help where I can....New Orleans of course appeals to me because 1) I'm relatively close, and 2) I'll use any excuse to visit the Crescent City. So, having read ALL the posts and obsessed about this for a week, here are my notes: I liked the idea of Harlequin Park or Tourmaline Park, the parks on Jewel and Turquoise Streets. It's a great tie-in with Verse 2: In the place where jewels abound. Something no one has mentioned regarding the Peter Pan guy, is that Preservation Hall is on St. Peter Street. Coincidence? But I'm not entirely convinced that our little guy is supposed to be Peter Pan. I too thought he looked like a jockey, but I'm not sure what a flying jockey would indicate. He's  looking at the 9 on the clock face, but his hand is pointing to the 10 and his feet are pointing to the 4. At one point I thought he looked like The Fool from tarot cards, and when someone mentioned the Holmes clock on Canal street I looked it up and saw the statue of Ignatius Reilly, who was "the fool" in A Confederacy of Dunces , a book by John Kennedy Toole that came out in 1980 and won a Pulizer Prize. But...the clock and the fool look nothing like the clock and the fool in the book, so I'm not very confident that's right. Johann: I do see those markings in the wood between the mask and the 90. They look to me like 2 eighth notes, but it's hard to tell for sure even with a good light. As for the grandfather clock itself, I would like to get a good look at the grandfather clock at the Hotel Monteleone. The creature in the checkerboard I thought at first was a griffin, but now that I'm looking at it in a better light, I think it looks more like a lion. Lion=Leone in French? The carousel at the hotel may also hold a clue. Also, the hotel is only 5 blocks away from Preservation Hall. (214 Royal Street) Perhaps the purple in the image is not purple, but Royal blue? (OK so that one may be a stretch) But look: the jockey's foot is pointing toward the 5 on the clock, and if you keep drawing an imaginary line, you get to the lion creature. Then, if you follow the gaze of the lion, he's looking at the hand. There's something about the hand that no one has seen yet. Yeah, I'll buy into the werewolf theory, the hand could certainly belong to a Loup Garoux that came from the forests of France. But I think I see an "N" in the middle of the arm, just above the sleeve. And the top 2 fingers look like they may also be arranged to look like an "N"....or maybe it's two 7's. The wrinkles in the palm may also be significant, a map perhaps? I also buy into the theory that there's a map hidden on the checkerboard, but I have yet to match it with anything. oops this post was too long....see the next post for part 2

Here is a hi-res pic of the clock.....still does not show the detail that I want to see on the face and in the crescent above the face, but there are heads of what looks like lions carved into the wood. Maybe it's nothing, maybe not. hxxp://hotelmonteleone.com/photo/galler ... /Lobby.jpg Someone mentioned the mask looking like Louis Armstrong, or a death mask. I don't think it looks like either one (how many folks die with smiles on their faces?). I do think it looks like a theater-type mask, as opposed to a Mardi Gras mask. Theater-goers in New Orleans go to the Mahalia Jackson Theater for the Performing Arts, which is in Armstrong Park. So there may still be something to the Armstrong angle, and I would be curious to poke around this park and take some pictures. I live in Dallas and would like to go check some of this stuff out in the very near future. So, note to self (or whoever gets to New Orleans before me): 1. Check out Preservation Hall. Get a good picture of the arch above the door, and see if you can find references to checkers (Chubby Checker?). 2. Get good pictures of the grandfather clock in the Hotel Monteleone, as well as the carousel. (perhaps something in the designs or decorations will match up with the picture?) 3. Have a good look around Armstrong Park and note landmarks. 4. Go to Harlequin and Tourmaline Parks in the Spanish Forts area and see if there's anything to that lead. (The names of the jeweled streets around the parks are too good to pass up. See if anything matches Verse 2.) 5. Go to Jackson Square and see if you can get things to match up with Verse 5. 6. Go to the library and look for pictures of these places circa 1981. One other interesting thing I found: Going on the jockey idea, I looked for the racetrack and found the Fairgrounds, which happens to be 2 blocks from ....Paul Morphy Street. I couldn't find any other streets that might be significant, but there does appear to be a park on Paul Morphy Street, between Laharpe and Lapeyrouse. I can't find a name for it on Mapquest, and maybe it's nothing...but maybe not! Well, those are my insights after obsessing about this for about a week. Happy hunting!

I asked my wife what kind of flowers those are on the clock face.  She said they are daffodils.  Trumpet daffodils (Armstrong again?). What caught my attention, though, was what looks like a missing or painted over flower in the lower right of the clock face (near the 90).  Is it a rose? hxxp://www.crocker.com/~bclews/flower.jpg

A friend of mine in N'Orleans scouted around for a statue which might match the "mask on a stick" in our image.  She found this: hxxp://soulofamerica.com/images/photosl ... nument.jpg It is the Sidney Bechet Monument in Congo Square, a part of Armstrong Park, which has an "arc of lights" at its entrance.

Hi!  New guy here.  Upon looking at this picture, the two numbers in the upper portion of the clock (19 29) stuck out to me as a date.  A quick google search led me to January 2, 1929.  On this date, the US and Canada agreed upon a new plan to preserve Niagra Falls.  Has this possibility been followed?  Please LMK.

That hasn't been suggested. There is a theme running through most (all?) of the pictures that most numbers refer to latitude and longitude. Converging evidence suggests that 29 and 90 represent straightforward latitude and longitude. 19 backwards is 91, and N.O. is located between longitudes 90 and 91. We know for sure that backward numbers were used like this in the Cleveland find, and "encapsulating" latitudes or longitudes were used at least in Images 1, 2, 4, 8, and 11.

With the recent intervention of Mother Nature...I wonder if this one will ever be found now.

I have serious doubts that it will ever be found. Many landmarks will have disappeared.

how unfortunate.  Look at it this way...mother nature claimed one of the casques in memory of BP

I bet it will be there, but it might be buried under a lot more than 2 feet of dirt. wilhouse

wilhouse wrote:: I bet it will be there, but it might be buried under a lot more than 2 feet of dirt. wilhouse lol Like 6 feet of water as well as the nearby hotel which collapsed on it.  Betting this will be the last casque found and it will take some serious digging...both physically as well as mentally (trying to find out just where that tall tree in the shape of a whale stood before Mother Nature butted in...

A CNN report from earlier this evening might be of interest to this group: Aerial shots indicate the city jewel -- the French Quarter -- remains intact and relatively dry... Café du Monde, the home of sugar-dusted beignets -- puffy, rectangular doughnuts -- is still there. Just across the street behind Jackson Square, the Cabildo and Presbytre museums still squat beside St. Louis Cathedral. "By and large, the French Quarter seems to be dry," Foreman noted. "That's important. That's home to Preservation Hall.

I saw a video yesterday of the french quarter. turns out that area is well above sea level. it had some wind damage, but in general looks ok. wilhouse

Hi everyone, Fox got me into this hunt!  I've lived in Louisiana all my life and in New Orleans for 1 1/2 years a few years back.  Just a little input, Traveler probably has much more to offer.  First of all, please pray for both the people and the beautiful city of New Orleans.  I now live on the other side of the state and we have been helping the evacuees for the last week and it is desperate.  I am destraught about my beloved oak trees in City Park, hoping they can survive the water. Anyway, I finally read all the post for this P.  Ya'll have done some really good research. Right now, all I can add is that if it is in the Vieux Carre'...you will definately need permission to dig.  Unless, the author had a piece of land privately that goes along with the lock theory and you can get there via a lock as has been mentioned in a previous post.  When I look at the mask, I don't see a Mardi Gras mask...some people have mentioned a death mask, but there are also things called "life masks".  This is what it looks likes to me.  A mask of someone in their youth or at least while they are alive.  Yes, it really looks like Satchmo. Also, the sleeve looks almost like a vase. And, the hand is not natural. I have several masks and have tried to hold in that position and just can't do it.  It seems the artist is too good to draw the hand in such an unnatural shape. I've sent several posts to Fox reguarding City Park because he asked if anything just screamed N.O. at me without doing the research.  With no research...just going with my gut, I put V2 as the verse for these reasons. 1. At a place where jewels abound...at Mardi Gras plastic beads are thrown and coveted like precious jewels. 2.As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours I thought of the peristyle and other places in City Park. 3.Here is a sovereign people...the Mardi Gras krewes have the Kings and Queens which rule for the entire year till they are replaced the next year. 4.Gnomes admire Fays delight The namesakes meeting Near this site...Storyland at City Park is a Fairytale theme park.  The best website for City Park is not working because of the disaster there right now. However, all this was done with no research...just gut feeling and memory.  Ya'll have done a great job and I am proud that so many people are learning about one of my favorite cities.  Just at this time, please give to the Red Cross, Salvation Army or some legitimate charity.  New Orleans, the city that care forgot, really needs your care right now.

Glad you are finally officially aboard Frosty.  Hope you are prepared for many sleepless nights and raging headaches.

catherwood wrote:: A friend of mine in N'Orleans scouted around for a statue which might match the "mask on a stick" in our image.  She found this: hxxp://soulofamerica.com/images/photosl ... nument.jpg It is the Sidney Bechet Monument in Congo Square, a part of Armstrong Park, which has an "arc of lights" at its entrance. My friend has a house in the French Quarter, but left town at the first forecasts of the category 5, and just before the mayor announced the evacuation.  She's at her family's home in Galveston, TX now, watching the news with the rest of us. For the above location, she says, "That's the Louis Armstrong Park, just outside the Quarter, and I know they took on a lot of water."

This statue is located near the riverwalk I believe.  Hard to see the face on the mask but it appears to be smiling like P7.  Also, it looks like the cuff around the hand holding the stick mask is wearing purple.....more than likely like every other jester statue around the city. hxxp://avyakta.caltech.edu:8080/photo20 ... 90026.html

The odd hand has always eluded me..although it is wearing the color of Rex (king of Mardi Gras) it just doesnt look like a kingly hand.  Could the hand simply be another confirmer to N.O. and nothing else?  Leading us to Voodoo? hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/42896548@N00/4163593/

In referance to the mask...I found this quote.  It is actually a quote of a quote.  Ralph Ellison originally quoted it, I am currently searching for the original date of the quote or the book that it came from.  It was being used in a 2002 interview.  If the quote is pre 1980 which I believe it to be based on his works.  It could possibly be an allogory to the mask being Louis Armstrong. Shakespeare invented Caliban. Who the hell dreamed up Louis? Some of the bop boys consider him Caliban, but if he is, he is a mask for a lyric poet much greater than most now writing. Man and mask, sophistication and taste hiding behind clowning and crude manners--the American joke, man -- Ralph Ellison

Ok, reading the above quote, I have to believe it is pre 1980 because Ellison is talking about Armstrong in the present tense.  As if he were still alive, but Armstrong died in 1971.  You can google Ralph Ellison and then Ralph Ellison and Louis Armstrong to see the tie in between the two.  The quote was hard to find as it was in an interview.  I think it must have come from one of Ellison's books.  Just rambling now...

a Picture of Armstrong park lit up at night. hxxp://wwwicg.informatik.uni-rostock.de ... 0night.jpg a Picture of manhole covers in Armstrong park...thought it was interesting about only 3 stand guard...ok, it's a stretch, but so is everything else. hxxp://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... D%26sa%3DN A picture of Armstrong park arch in the day light...to me the points that you see on the arch remind me of the clock hands that point to the hour of 12 on the clock hxxp://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... D%26sa%3DN

Hi, another Louis Armstrong post...things are really leading me to believe that this is a life mask of Louis Armstrong.  In referance to 12 o'clock at night (midnight).  Louis was the singer, performer and trumpet player on an album or catalog of music called "Jazz 'round Midnight".  Louis was known as the King of Jazz.  This album featured other artists such as Ella Fitzgerald, the Queen of Scat. Having said that, there are 2 places that could be associated with this picture.  New Orleans of course and also where he lived out his life in Corona, Queens, New York.  I think it would be good if there could two discussions.  One for New Orleans and one for Queens.  I know the worlds fair was held there and that they turned "singer bowl" in Flushing Queens into Louis Armstrong bowl. And, I know that Interstate 678, the missing numbers on the clock run through Corona.  This is all that I know about any architecture in Queens besides his house. In reguards to the chess connection, I think that is perfectly logical.  Besides the personal reasons I think Jazz and chess are similar, there is a very obvious one.  Both have to do with royalty,  on the chess board there are kings, queens, knights, etc.  In jazz you have King Louis, Queen of Scat, Count Bassie, Duke Ellington. Anyway, if anyone is in or around Queens, you may want to check it out...personally New Orleans still looks good to me, but it could be a red herring. But Louis Armstrong is looking really good to me.

if anyone is around the sites right now, I bet you could dig in the park and no one would even notice... wilhouse

frosty wrote:: In referance to the mask...I found this quote.  It is actually a quote of a quote.  Ralph Ellison originally quoted it, I am currently searching for the original date of the quote or the book that it came from.  It was being used in a 2002 interview.  If the quote is pre 1980 which I believe it to be based on his works.  It could possibly be an allogory to the mask being Louis Armstrong. Shakespeare invented Caliban. Who the hell dreamed up Louis? Some of the bop boys consider him Caliban, but if he is, he is a mask for a lyric poet much greater than most now writing. Man and mask, sophistication and taste hiding behind clowning and crude manners--the American joke, man -- Ralph Ellison Ellison wrote that to Albert Murray in 1957.

Eerie!  Look at the checked pattern.  By the top of the clock, the pattern's bright.  The rest of it looks like its under water. The pattern becomes dark and wavey, as if looking at it summerged.  Hmmm.

Wondering if anyone knows sign language.  Most images have hands in it. Like mentioned prior, image 7 has a weird grip on the stick mask. Open the first two fingers, it could be a U or the letter V.  Any hand signs that depict a whole word?  Image 9 looks real interesting.

boogieman wrote:: Wondering if anyone knows sign language.  Most images have hands in it. Like mentioned prior, image 7 has a weird grip on the stick mask. Open the first two fingers, it could be a U or the letter V.  Any hand signs that depict a whole word?  Image 9 looks real interesting. It would also be a good idea to examine each image for dot patterns, as some such patterns might represent Braille. Drew

Trohn --what a great connection with FLO.  When I saw that he had a connection to Audubon Park in New Orleans--it really caught my attention.  One of my theories of where it may be in New Orleans was Audubon Park near the Audubon Zoo.  The pictures has always reminded me of werewolf lore.  The full moon, the not quite so human hand, the small wolf head down in the right lower side on the checker board pattern, and the picture of a werewolf in the front part of the book on page 13 wearing a similar shirt as that pictured in P7. "From France came the sturdy seafaring Korreds of Brittany; the nomadic, shape-shifting Lutins of Normandy....Loups Garoux from the forests." pg 13 Werewolf legends of France were brought with settlers into Louisianna.  Historically (and somewhat whimsically), the Audubon Zoo has on display, a large stuffed Le Loup Garou in their swamp exhibit there.  However, I don't know if it still exists, but I believe it to have been present back in the 80's.  I was always intrigue that this may be a starting place.  Curious.    Really nice find though.

The Audubon connection with FLO was just a bonus. What led me to there was the verse... Three high posts Education and Law for all to see I am in the University business and that one spot houses three Universities- including one top five law school and one top five education school. The Audubon Park is at the exact point where the Mississippi travels north (but here mostly east) And with the Twain reference, this can be a sure reference as only a river, connections to Twain, can travel in simultaneous directions. And from what I remember, the Mississippi travels North and the Missouri does not. The Image gets you close, the verse helps direct you. I have found no Giant Poles and no Giant Steps, only Giant Oaks, a Pavillion, and a few statues.  Nothing historical, permanent, and photogenic. The Garden District was spared damage from the hurricanes so the casque, if here, should be unscathed.

Speaking of New Orleans,  could this be the horse in the lower right side? hxxp://www.eveandersson.com/photos/phot ... size=large

So I did some virtual browsing of parks in New Orleans (flickr and webshots again).  I like the possibilities of City Park.  I believe Fox mentioned this park much earlier in this thread.  Nothing conclusive, but I found enough to be intrigued.  Wish I could get there in person to look for more. Here's a couple of pictures of some structure in City Park.  The left-hand side is an overhead from Google Earth.  The outline of the end of the bldg is a pretty good match for the arch and horizontal flats on either side.  It's not an unusual shape, so I imagine we could find matches in other places, but I figured I go ahead and throw this out there and see what y'all think.  The right-hand side is just another view of the same bldg, but again I think you can get a good feel for that shape. There's a section of City Park call Storyland.  It gots lots of fairy-tale/nursery-rhyme/Disney type stuff in there - seems like a good fit for this hunt.  I was hoping to find a match for the flying guy in the clock face, but no luck so far.  I did find this flower that matches those in the corners of the clock face: Other circumstantial evidence: stone lions at the base of the building in the first image above (look at the base of the light pole in the right-hand "pane"), lions on a carousel, and a miniature train in the park (similar to the mini 982 in Houston). Thoughts?

Terrific find, Jambone. The Greek structure is the Peristyle. From a website: "The Peristyle is a magnificent Neo-Classical structure with majestic Ionic columns and is one of City Park’s oldest structures. Built in 1907, the Peristyle was originally designed as a dancing pavilion. Four concrete lions, some of the most recognizable denizens of City park, guard the Peristyle where stairs lead down to the edge of Bayou Metairie. Ducks, geese, swans swim merrily by during the day and the Peristyle is dramatically reflected into the Bayou by night. Countless dances, cocktail parties, weddings and picnics have been held in the Peristyle."

I can't believe no one's followed up on Jambone's extraordinary find. Don't we have any hunters in or near New Orleans who can scout the place?

Didn't they all go to Houston? Lots of things to follow up on in New Orleans, but the chance that things have been majorally rearranged would leave this part of the Secret with a small percentage of an upside.

if the casque is in or around the french quarter, then it's still there, as that part of town wasn't really hit wilhouse

If the casque is buried 1-3 ft. below the surface, it is likely still there even if the City Park area was flooded. Lots of trees uprooted there, though.

Here's a site with many pictures of Storyland.  Unfortunately the site is about the damage and recovery efforts. hxxp://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... en%26lr%3D One thing that stood out for me was the arch bridge (near the bottom of the page) is a match for the wooden top of the clock.  In fact, in one image it appears that there may be two bridges side-by-side like the top of the clock.

Excellent observation! I've encountered many pictures of that same bridge, but I never connected it with P7. Sherlock would say I see but I do not observe.

I really like the bridge = top of clock idea.  Perhaps our "peter pan" on the clock face is just to get us to this area of the park...unless of course we can find him.  He may just represent Storyland. My vote is to start really researching City Park for now.....not completely stopping on other ideas but giving this a little more focus.

It wouldn't surprise me if one of the characters in StoryLand has the face on the mask.  Another might even have the hand.

Pretty good link: hxxp://www.pbase.com/septembermorn/city ... ne_katrina

Louis Armstrong's statue in Armstrong Park kind of looks like the mask. Someone please check whether this statue existed in 1981-82. AnotherDoth

Nice. A tie in to "Rhaspodic Man Soil"

Both noses are broad and flat, and the eyelids are a good match, but the lips don't quite match. The mask could be Satchmo, but I doubt it is that particular statue of him.

The park in which the statue is in has: "Preservation Hall No4" Interestingly close to Jackson Square. If someone was on site, they could start at Cafe DuMonde (at the door of Jackson Square) and walk due north on St Ann's Street six blocks and hit upon the statue. Intreguing....

Unknown: The park in which the statue is in has: "Preservation Hall No4" Not quite sure what you mean by this. No4? Indeed, if someone were on site, they could enjoy a mean cafe au lait and beignet at Cafe du Monde. One of my favorite spots in N.O. or anywhere.

forest_blight wrote:: Not quite sure what you mean by this. No4? Indeed, if someone were on site, they could enjoy a mean cafe au lait and beignet at Cafe du Monde. One of my favorite spots in N.O. or anywhere. Meaning that there are more than one Halls that could have our representative clocks.

Yeah but, isn't there only one Presevation Hall?

yes wilhouse

boogieman wrote:: Eerie!  Look at the checked pattern.  By the top of the clock, the pattern's bright.  The rest of it looks like its under water. The pattern becomes dark and wavey, as if looking at it summerged.   Hmmm. I made this quote last September after Katrina, not putting it together with that bridge till now!!  The bridge is above the water, everything else is wet except the clock. Anyone see the water under the bridge?

Why do we often call the figure on the clock "Peter Pan"?  It seems like a jockey to me.

What's this we crap?  The figure on the clock is definetly Trohn, passing time.  I got it, Trohn's the jockey!!  Love you man! Seriously, talking about bclews' bridge, the significance of the water line makes this arch bridge an image confirmer, no?  Makes the top of the clock housing a bridge.  Can anyone see the water line in the image?

The Satchmo statue was found quite some time ago and should be somewhere around these boards.  I think it was dismissed because it just wasnt close enough... The "figure" has been called Peter Pan in the past...not really sure if it is PP but I think it looks more like PP or some fairytale guy than it does a jockey.  sorry Trohn.

According to this site hxxp://www.nps.gov/archive/jazz/Armstrong%20Park_map_history.htm the hall is called "Perseverance hall No. 4" not "Preservation hall" But it does have a couple of nice bridges that would match the arch on the clock hxxp://photos.nondot.org/2001-06-13-AlabamaTrip/08%20-%20New%20Orleans%20-%20Luis%20Armstrong%20Park/

Boogieman-- Sorry about the general "we."  I meant no offense.

I didn't put Johana up to that post... but it would be a nice tie in Anyways, I do not see the jockey or the Peter Pan in that figure..  I just think it is an on-site confirmer, like the Dawrf Hat in Houston. Water Line and Arched Bridge - wouldn't that be prophetic. How would the stars under the bridge be used? Back to the figure for a question... why are there two arrows circling around to the '12' and therefore to the 'jewel' What points the way (from two sides)? One of my previous posts mentions  that there are three distinct 'giant poles" in New Orleans... the canal street one is too far away from here... the others?

Don't be silly.  I was just goofing off.

BM- no sweat - keep in mind: one jewel found every twenty years. this may take awhile

This is pretty cool. SHIFT and CTRL to zoom in and out, click to move around: hxxp://photographicvr.com/cityparkperistyle.htm

Just some old pictures from City Park. May or may not be relevant. What's the deal with big floral clocks? There was one in St. Louis, too.

Hello all, Lafitte here. I recognize some names from Tweleve but most of y'all are new to me. As is this hunt. My interest is peaked as my family is from the Quarter. But I must say that after reading every post to get up to speed there were some I found to be a quite shocking. Maybe this is because the storm has affected us in ways that are immeasurable. And I'm pretty sure that no-one intentionally meant any harm.  However  there were some posts on or around Sept. days after the storm that seemed to be extremely cavalier and flip in regards to what was happening in N.O.. Reading them made me cringe. These posts were made while my Great Aunt Marge was stuck in the Superdome and we were frantically trying to airlift her out. Let me just say that I'm glad that this forum is here, I love participating and will be adding my input, but I am grateful that my memory is very good so that I don't have to go back and read those posts again. Has anyone heard from Trainor? This person was helping with the Armstrong Park theory.  Lafitte

Welcome to the Q4T boards Lafitte....glad to see you made it safely from tweleve.  As Wilhouse pointed out {and as you can see for yourself} these boards are muuuuuuch more extensive than those at 12; however, be sure to check in over there as well. I am sure no one meant any ill will to the unfortunate families that lived through Mother Nature's wrath.  I hope that your Great Aunt has put this disaster behind her and is moving on...as well as any other of your family that is in N.O.  It is great to have some feet on the ground there so I hope you dust off your walking shoes and charge up your digital camera for many recon missions we will be sending you on. Welcome again to The Secret Lafitte.

Welcome Lafitte.  I'm sorry you had to read those comments, but rest assured, the entire Nation was affected by Katrina.  To a degree, much like 9/11.  This board is no different since we are so spread out across the states and Canada.  This board is designed to help one another find casques.  Some facts about the hunt may seem cavalier in print, but everyone here cares.  Believe me. Looking forward to your input on any of the ideas discussed here.  Having eyes in N.O. can help us all.  Thanks for joining!

I think I have found a great lead for the majority of this image.... hxxp://www.dailylush.com/archives/the_c ... ns_la.html I goggled New Orleans and grandfather clock and I got one consistent hit:  The Hotel Monteleone (over one hundredyears old) hxxp://secure.hotelmonteleone.com/hotel/info.html Has a famous Grandfather Clock in the lobby which I assume from what I read about the large windows, can be seen from the street. It is a faurly good match (see the link, photos, lobby) except that the image uses roman numerials and the one in the hotel uses english digits. Might be interesting to see the view of the streets.

This hotel, bar & grandfather clock was brought up quite some time ago Trohn.  It generated a brief amount of enthusiasm which promptly died out w/in the week. Lafitte...anything in this P take you to Hotel M?

Thanks... must have missed that week... Besides the Grandfather clock, the thing that really interested me is if you read the article of the first link, it describes a feature of the hotel bar/lobby: Arms sticking out of the wall holding lamps/lights with circus like frilly sleeves. (couldn't have described out stickholder any better) Also, this image, unlike most, has an indoor feel to it. (What are the chances that BP was standing outside the hotel, looking in a large window and having an obstructed view of thegrandfather clock, with a wall ornament arm just inside this window. He could have been standing in the bushes outside the hotel and started making a hole.) Maybe this should be in the verse section, but as the Hotel is on Royal Street... can "Near ace is high" refer to "a king and queen" to refer to Royal Street?? (Near ace would not be sufficient because the ace could be either high or low.  And it helps with the ryhming) But what about the giant pole.....

Let me put everyones minds to rest about the Monteleone. There are no bushes out front. It would be impossible to bury anything remotely near this hotel. The only green space in and around the Quarter is the following; 1. Jackson Square. Impossible. Gates are locked in the eve. and there is no way to dig without getting arrested.. 2.Armstrong Park. This was mentioned last year  as a possible location. Not bad. However the Park falls under the Park service jurisdiction and their rules are quite strict about digging. 3.Lafeyette Square.Has statue of Henry Clay, and John McDonough. Could be Education and Justice.However the Giant Pole, Giant Step is weird. 4. There is a triangular green space on Decatur. Sorry to say that if anything is buried there it has been covered by a huge statue of Bienville. This is near the riverboat docking area.Twains attention? 5. Washington Square Park. No statues, walls, monuments,poles, steps or anything else that fits with this poem. I would forget the Quarter as a location(except for the triangular park...). If you look at images of the Cathedral you will notice arches that look like the "grandfather clock" as you chose to call it. Big landmark. The color purple represents justice. Rex wears gold. Louis Armstrong was the King of Zulu one year. The ragged nails are odd. Checkerboard pattern, and color purple are in other images in this book as well. Preservation is too obvious to be Preservation hall as a location. Besides, there is no area to bury a casque here. I will post more later but wanted to get your minds of of the Monteleone. Lafitte

P.s. Trohn, where are you from?  Lafitte

Thanks Laftite for the green rundown of the Quarter. My thoughts on the Giant Pole (of New Orleans) have focused on (1) Liberty Monument - moved and was in the middle of a street but from what I saw in photos was on a stretch on landscaping (2) Lee Monument (rules on burying here are probably as stringent as any other square in the city. If you start at Jackson square (Stonewall's Door), looks to be too far West for the clues. I am living in Central Pennsylvania (now - for the past year) I had been working in New York city (for the prior fourteen years) and living in New Jersey (born and bred) I went to college in Chicago. Met my wife in Kansas. I have family in DC, Boston, and Miami.  (other cities I know fairly well) I have never been to New Orleans. As far as Preservation being too obvious a clue, do not let the easy ones throw you.  The numbers on the clock signify the Log and Lat for New Orleans, so Preservation could be just what it is.  True nothing at the hall area, but the sign may be visible from wherever BP had been digging. A small detail on the image which your knowledge may help nail down, on the lower right, within a purple square, is a "Dragon Head" off on its own. Does it resemble anything you know of? I saw on the photo of Grandfather clock, an animal head sticking off of the right side.  Really couldn't tell if it was the same of not. Thanks for the thoughts.  Keep them coming.

Preservation Hall is between Royal and Bourbon st. If you stand with your back to the door and look towards the river you will be able to see a smidgen of trees from the square. But I can't see how anything was buried here. I'm still not really certain that this is the correct verse for this image. At first glance the horsehead was similar to all of the hitching posts in the Quarter. I don't have the book yet so all I have to work with is what i see on my screen. Has anybody come to any conclusions yet about the weird wrinkles on the hand? Mirror images? Folded images? That funny smiley mouth line is making me suspect there is more here. Since you filled me in on your history here's some of mine. My history is far too extensive so here is a brief outline. 1620's; some family members arrive in Nova Scotia and were in the Angel Guard. They came to Louisiana after the b.s. with England. (We're still waiting for an apology) In the 1700's; after the French Revolution Sorrento Italy became a haven for nobility. No heads rolled here, however we sailed our own boats to La. just in case. Ran boats up and down Bayou lafourche. Changed our last name to be more "French". Married French and were lucky that first cousins didn't. The N.S. relatives and the Italians came really close! Had businesses in F.Q. My grandfather went to Loyola and then Julliard on music scholarship. Married my Grams whose family came from Ireland. Luckily they came late and didn't have to dig any ditches. My grams's parents had a restaurant on Bourbon st. ( WE don't show our you know whats, tourists do) Grams dad dies, it's the Depression, restaurant gets sold, girls go into showbiz. At that time WWL radio was BIG. Look up the Dawn busters. My Great Aunt Marge was a major part. My dad is Spanish and Indian. Don't ask which nation, was told it was "bad blood" and they tried to bury this info. Idiots. Granparents moved to Brooklyn, Pawpaw(grandfather) was big with Jerome Robins and sang on Broadway and in Radio City. Everyone moved back to N.O. asap except my Pawpaw and Grams who are still in Bklyn. I was conceived in N.O. and born in Bklyn. F*in A  y'all! Moved back to N.O. at 17. Was on my way to A.B.T. but was sick of the city... Spent summers in N.O. and winters in N.Y. Yeah ,I know, ridiculous. So here we are.  Keep the ideas flowing and I'll do the same. Lafitte

I think everyone is in agreement about the image being NO. Is there another verse that fits, since 7 does seem to fit SF? I was one of the first to believe it was NO, and I still have strong feelings but I wanted to throw it out there. wilhouse

How about verses 3, 6, or 10?

Hi Lafitte, welcome! Just thinking out loud here... the ragged fingernails have puzzled me too.  The nails are long, which might indicate that (1) it's a woman's hand, or (2) that they continued to grow after death (it's a myth, I know- it just appears that way b/c the surrounding tissues shrink).  What do you think about the above ground tombs in N.O.?  I know that they are somewhat of on attraction there.  Are there any park-like areas near any of the tombs?

bclews wrote:: Lets not forget about this.  It's just too close a match.

This is in City Park. Have you googled St. Louis Cathedral yet? If you do please note that this image along with the other square shape with half circle is to be found on the facade. As far as the cemeteries being an attraction, I guess you can say that. We just bury our dead. The only cemetery that gets the most attention is St.Louis. This is where Marie Laveau is buried.  No parks or green space. I really don't think that any cemeteries were used as a place to bury the key. It must be a park or public green space... Lafitte But the ragged nails REALLY bug me!!!!

Don't know if this helps or has been said before , but when I first looked at  the hand I saw a 3  on the  Thumbnail.

All I can say is I can't wait to get my copy of the book. My magnefying glass will be used along with everything else at my disposal. What about those weird lines on the hand???Lafitte

Lafitte- I have an idea that struck me like a ton of bricks... The Image Seven is bathed in a shadow.  It is dominate in the background as the discolored purple and brown squares show. This coupled with the stars and moon made me think of a "sky scraper" I reviewed by French Quarter Maps and what did I see... The Skyscraper House (Dr. Le Monnier House) Four stories built in 1811.  The photos I saw show that the first three stories are bathed in shadows (from its location and the surrounding buildings) Just like the image.  AND ITS PURPLE! This is on 600 Royle Street (I am fixed on Royal street being the key - Near ace is high)  Corner of Royal and St Peter. Whoa... look down St Peter from this corner... I can see Preservation Hall. Now if I started at Cafe Du Monde (air smells sweet) I would have had to travel mostly North but first across (to get here!) I know I know You are all saying you are in the middle of a city block. But wait... Directly behind me is St Anthony's GARDEN! (someone could bury something in here - BP buried something at a National Park and a Zoo) Ok... Now I am in the Iron gates of the Garden.... the purple skyscraper is across the street and just to my left and preservation hall is directly in front of me a half block away...and just behind me to my left is William Faulkner's House (a contemporary of Mark Twain) and guess what... people are buried in this garden ( 19 Mexican sailors)  This is commemorated with an Obelisk in the garden (a giant pole)) (A pole for the dead) A Giant Pole, A Giant Step... to the place the casque is kept! How about it?

French Sailors... here is a link for the gardens...and the obelisk. hxxp://stlouiscathedral.org/VirtualAr.htm#St.Anthony ’sGarden Looking out toward Royal Street. Reading the sailors inscription.... look what their ship is called: Tonnere:  Thunder  ("sounds from the sky") This is part of the Cathedral property, (not far away high posts are three) (The verse walks you from the front of the church to the back of the church) Also on Royal street is the Supreme Court Buildings (and the cirucit courts) (Justice for all to see)

According to the website, Jackson Square is near.  (Am I right in thinking this?)  We have proposed Jackson Square, but does this theory involve a verse other than the one Trohn is using?

Well if the casque is buried in St. Anthony's garden then that would be VERY sacreligious!!!! This is the Cathedrals garden and belongs to the archdioces. Not a public place. My grandparents were married in the Cathedral so you won't catch me digging there. Even if we could!

Lafitte wrote:: Well if the casque is buried in St. Anthony's garden then that would be VERY sacreligious!!!! This is the Cathedrals garden and belongs to the archdioces. Not a public place. My grandparents were married in the Cathedral so you won't catch me digging there. Even if we could! Following the clues on where they lead. I am not suggesting that you dig there, I am suggesting that you debunk the theory. Does the Urn on top of the Obelisk (in the garden) resemble the purple sleeve of the image?

Trohn wrote:: Lafitte- The Skyscraper House (Dr. Le Monnier House) Four stories built in 1811.  The photos I saw show that the first three stories are bathed in shadows (from its location and the surrounding buildings) Just like the image.  AND ITS PURPLE! This is on 600 Royle Street (I am fixed on Royal street being the key - Near ace is high)  Corner of Royal and St Peter. Whoa... look down St Peter from this corner... I can see Preservation Hall. But wait... Directly behind me is St Anthony's GARDEN! (someone could bury something in here - BP buried something at a National Park and a Zoo) Ok... Now I am in the Iron gates of the Garden.... the purple skyscraper is across the street and just to my left and preservation hall is directly in front of me a half block away...and just behind me to my left is William Faulkner's House (a contemporary of Mark Twain) and guess what... people are buried in this garden ( 19 Mexican sailors)  This is commemorated with an Obelisk in the garden (a giant pole)) (A pole for the dead) A Giant Pole, A Giant Step... to the place the casque is kept! How about it? Well you did say that something could be buried there. Get ready because I'm going to debunk away... First of all Le Monnier house is at 640 Royal st. It is on the corner of St.Peter.It is NOT purple. Second directly behind you is NOT St. Anthonys garden. This is on Royal And Orleans. Preservation hall is not visible on this corner. Third, where did you read that Mexicans are buried here? Members of the French Navy are interred here. Fourth, this pole is diminutive. I understand your excitement and encourage it but please, check your facts... Lafitte

I'll keep plugging.  (as we all) I do not mean to offend (if I do) but I try and stick with the image and the verse and see how interpretations of them lead. I try and put no emotional attatchment or sanctimony to the paths, just lay thoughts out to be debated. Truth be told these days, no green space exists that can be dug into - freely. Loose clues that exist on verse and image that haven't found any good fits..... '19', "sounds from the sky" I do think that "running north but first across" is used for both the MIssissippi River (Twain's attention) and to get you to somewhere on Royal Street (in jewel's direction)

I keep returning (in my mind) to Storyland in City Park.  I recently found this image which combines 3 pieces of information -- hxxp://www.agilitynut.com/06/3/story3.jpg Notice the flowers above Miss Muffet's head (Jambone found these).  Also notice the cuffs of her blouse and pantaloons(?).  And finally, while the mask does not match Miss Muffet's face the construction is similar.  I wonder if there is another character in the park that matches the mask in our image.  Maybe one of these -- hxxp://www.pbase.com/septembermorn/image/49888479 And let's not forget the bridge.

Lafitte, Can you go to Story Land with a camera?  Really think we're onto something here.

Since the clock is showing midnight, you might want to check out the Cinderella's coach display at Storyland.

Actually I'm pretty sure it says 3:00

Hello all, Lafitte here. I hope everyone had a relaxing holiday! I just received my copy of the book so give me a couple of days to respond. As far as Storyland goes, it is still closed to the public. I would only be able to take photos through the fence. My gut feeling is that the casque is in City Park so I will be focusing on this.

Glad you finally got your book Lafitte....now you are officially in on the hunt. WELCOME now, let me spare you some time and just give you this now..... ...... hehehehe.

regulus wrote:: Actually I'm pretty sure it says 3:00 Nope.  Definitely midnight.

bclews wrote:: Nope.  Definitely midnight. definitely?  Why so definitely?  Not that I disagree with you.  Leaning towards Noon/Midnight myself but why is the second hand on 3

DUH! MUST be 12 o'clock to fit.  December = turquoise, narcissus, 12 oclock . but why the 3?  hmmmmm

This kind of concerns me: Should this bother us Lafitte?  Any chance of losing our casque forever?

This is what I meant by above post: this is what it looks/looked like during restoration after the Hurricane.  Mother Nature sure is making it difficult with this casque.  Will it ever be found

fox wrote:: definitely?  Why so definitely?  Not that I disagree with you.  Leaning towards Noon/Midnight myself but why is the second hand on 3 The rotating plate above the face of the clock will show the moon and stars during the night and the sun during the day, so the hour is somewhere between 6 PM and 6 AM.  And since we don't see the transition between the two images on the plate is must be right between the two times -- midnight.  That little hand on the 3 is similar to the hand used to set an alarm on old alarm clocks (before digital).  Does a grandfather clock have an alarm??  Perhaps a special chime? Fox, the park might be more willing to let us dig DURING the restoration, rather than after it is completed.  Somebody get down there!! Maybe one of us could offer to restore the area near Cinderella's coach.

City Park does seem likely, especially because of that giant narcissus. But don't forget that Jackson Square has much going for it, too. Consider: 1. If one orients the Jackson statue's horse so that the clock face is directly behind it, it resembles the horse thingy at the lower right of P7. 2. A few have noted that Jackson Square resembles the clock face in P7. Jackson Square is a circle within a square. The small semicircle at the top could refer to the amphitheatre-like structure at the southern end of the Square, across Decatur St. The moon at the top (frishkie mentioned this) could be a reference to the Moonwalk, located just beyond it on the riverbank. 3. One of the buildings flanking the Square is the Pont alba Apartments. "White house close at hand"? If this interpretation is correct, the position of the second hand might be pointing us toward the western gate.

Just throwing some stuff at the wall to see what sticks (probably not much)... we've wondered whether things like lions and sundials could be common among the different casque sites.  FWIW, City Park in New Orleans has both lions (which we've seen) and a sundial.  Here's a picture of a sundial in City Park: City Park also has a miniature train, similar to Hermann Park in Houston: Here's a picture of a character called "Mr. Bingle" in a pose very similar to the guy on the clock face in image 7.  There are lots of Mr. Bingle guys (used on holiday floats?), I don't know if this particular one was there back in 198X, and this isn't a match for the guy in image 7 (only the pose is similar). And finally, here's a picture from a WWI memorial in City Park.  It's not a great match for the mask in image 7, but maybe another part of the monument could be?  Of the pics I've been able to find, I don't see anything too promising.

forest_blight wrote:: That's a pretty good match, FB.  Close enough to make me look at Jackson Square some more.

While we are at jackson Square for a moment, I had another interpretation of the verse (7).... If we are standing at Cafe Du Monde (Southern Gate of Jackson Square) (the air smells sweet) and we are looking directly through the Square (towards the orientation shown above)  and seeing the cathedral (high posts are three) - all mentioned before - "Running north but first across, Is an object of twain's attention" What we see from the current spot, (turning around and looking south) is the Canal Street Ferry. So if this ferry extends Canal Street, then it (running from Algiers to New Orleans) runs mostly North but first across! and Twain (in its original meaning) is a measure of the tide(depth) as the boat navagates....  I think this meaning is suggested by the us of 'attention' (as opposed to an alternative possible choice as 'affection') So the verse directs on to 'Canal Street' (in this interpretation)

If you are standing at Cafe Du Monde you are looking down St Ann st. At the corner of the square. The Canal St. ferry is not visible from this corner. Or any for that matter. If you were standing atop the military park by the cannon, however, you would see up and downriver.And Jackson's horse from the angle depicted in the painting. Lafitte

I should add that this is officially called Washington Artillary Park... Lafitte Giant pole could be the flagpole in the square but the giant step still puzzles me.

I have thought that "Giant Step" was a makred off distance from the pole... Reference:  'Mother May I?" "Mother, may I take a giant step?" This distance would be in the same mold as "hop" or "pace". This clue should not be considered as being interpretted in a similar manner as the proposed Boston verse.... "five steps"

Well the only Giant Pole in the area is the flagpole in the square. The casque can't be buried there. Across the street is the artillary park I'm leaning towards. This is making me crazy. Lafitte

Any potential (out of the way) spot in Woldenberg park (at the end closest to Jackson Square)?

Not really. In the 80's  Woldenberg Park was all warehouses. I think the Artillery park is it. But only if verse #7 is the match. Lafitte

Let me add that there are 2 cannons. The one on the upper level and one on the St Peter st corner. St Peter and Decatur. There is a plaque there and I have to get into town to read it and take pix. my husband has the truck until Mon. so I'll try to go then... Lafitte

Not that this is unique or significant, but I found it in one of the antique shops (along Royal) and would be remiss not to share... **www.idamanheimantiques.com/closeup.asp?p=/antiques/clocks_112.jpg (website gives errors - maybe due to music) (you can access from general below) I was intrigued by the three high posts.  (photo attached) www.idamanheimantiques.com

The mask still looks like Armstrong to me. hxxp://thesecret.pbwiki.com/7_site AnotherDoth

I'm with you Doth.  Preservation Hall, Louis Armstrong, these get you to N.O.  The rest of the clues get you to story land. (I think) Many of you have good arguements for a different direction.  Storyland just feels right.  BP-ish, ya know?  The verse?  Who the hell knows!  Can probably squeeze them all in there somehow.

Any bodt coming to N.O. any time soon? Here's a funny yet accurate link to get you acclimated. Lafitte hxxp://www.gumbopages.com/yatspeak.html

hxxp://www.gumbopages.com/yatspeak.html Let's try that again...

We've had some hard freezes as of late and I haven't had a chance to get into New Orleans to take those pix. Sorry guys, but we landscape and had to work on some properties. I hope to take pix of 1. City Park, Storyland area. 2. Moon Walk, Artillary Park area. If anyone has a request let me know!! Lafitte

Unknown: If anyone has a request let me know!! Yeah, say hi to Jude Acers for me and tell him I'll beat him next time! hxxp://www.chessville.com/misc/JudeAcers.htm

Forest blight, Jude is an old family friend.  What exactly would you like me to tell him?

I'm just another sucker that he thrashed at chess. I was in town (pre-Katrina) for a conference and lost at least $20 to him over two days. The second day he was just packing up to leave, but enthusiastically invited me to join him at a restaurant across the street where he knew the chef. I had some terrific etouffe, and Jude played a couple of games (for a nominal fee of course) and regaled me with stories about chess. He also taught the folks at the next table how to eat crawfish properly (when he was done, they applauded). Oh, and he likes pens, so I gave him mine. I was very glad to hear he escaped the flooding. You should totally show him P9. I think the puzzle would appeal to him, and he may have unique insights.

May as well show him P7 as well.

Oh, oop! I meant P7.

Good idea! He should still be on Decatur st.  He probably met Byron in the late 70's early 80's! Lafitte

Hi there....this is my first post about the hunt, so i'll get right to the point. As soon as I saw the high-res scan of this picture, I thought about Louis Armstrong Park.  Several reasons: First, the shape of the clock top is the shape of the arch over the entrance and the bridge. Second, the little "horse head" picture in the lower right, to me looked like a howling wolf--and Howlin' Wolf is a name associated with jazz. It's also the name of a club in New Orleans. hxxp://www.howlin-wolf.com/ It's also suggestive of a chess knight--and Chess was the name of a record label that recorded black music and jazz/blues; Howlin' Wolf recorded on this label. hxxp://www.howlinwolf.com/images/chess/wolf_(chess1 ).htm (See label) Also, the numbers around the clock, 19, 29--which to me said 1929 at first (before I realized it was part of the latitude/longitude) which is a year significant to Armstrong--he broke out into the national scene in the year 1929 after having played with local bands until then. The years 1929 -1941 were among his greatest recording years, and there is a CD that bears that designation. That horse/wolf head was significant in another way too--it reminded me of the first place I'd ever seen Armstrong park: in the hunt called "Treasure, the search for the Golden Horse."  There's an entire segment filmed in Armstrong park. I'm still researching other factors in this image. I don't know if there's been a concensus on the verse that matches this image..I'm voting for V7, unless there's some rule that says you can't have the same number as the image. I've ordered my book but haven't received it yet. c

Welcome to The Secret , shecrab! The Howlin' Wolf Club was established in December, 1988, 6 years after The Secret was published. Howlin' Wolf was also the trade name of blues artist Chester Arthur Burnett, who died 6 years before The Secret was published. I cannot find anything that links him to New Orleans, though. There is no rule prohibiting coinciding V/P numbers. In fact, we know V4 is paired with P4.

It wasn't that it (The Howlin' Wolf) connected so much as reminded me of certain aspects of music and NO. The little head reminded me of the club logo. Since I knew of the club, I thought of the city. I'm not convinced the head is a horse's head--on the surface it might be, but you rarely see them with their mouths open so wide. c

...and here comes a opinion from the old guy... to me, it isn't a horse head at all, but a dragon head, like they used to carve on the front of viking ships,...similar to the one shown at the bottom of pg. 15... just my observation.

I am just catching the end of a show on PBS about the history of New Orleans.  Monday Feb. 11 @ 9-11pm EST.  Wish I caught it all.  What struck me is something the narrator said.  "No one is buried underground in New Orleans.  Heavy rain causes caskets to pop out of the ground." hmmmm Maybe the casque is buried.....above ground? edit:  Think I saw that someone mentioned this before.  It's still logical to focus on this image in this way though.

I wonder if everything buried in NO eventually surfaces.

I hope this isn't off topic. Verse 2 goes with image 7 (Image 7 has turquoise which is the treasure of the fays who are mentioned in verse 2) also the pace where jewels abound (a set of streets named after jewels ) is very near harlequin park (the flying guy has harlequin socks) in New Orleans.

I still believe the harlequin looks like a jockey or baseball player.  Yet, his socks do look harlequin.

egads, dont say "jockey" too loudly around here

fox wrote:: egads, dont say "jockey" too loudly around here just like E F Hutton.

Hey all, This post covers multiple verses (1, 3, 7, 12) and multiple pictures (5, 6, 7, 8 ).  There doesn't seem to be just one thread that was appropriate for this kind of post so I just posted it in all 8 threads.  So if you have read this post once you don't have to read the other 7 as they are all the same. Socrates, Pindar, Apelles Free speech, couplet, birch To find casque’s destination (Verse 4) (Lines 10, 11, 12) The word birch rhymes with verse so I think the line is supposed to read FREE VERSE, COUPLET.  Now separate the initial letters of each couplet that rhymes from the initial letters of the free verse(i.e. the lines that don’t rhyme).  You can do this for all the verses(although some of them are all free verse with no lines that rhyme), however, for reasons that I will make clear below I think the only verses that matter here are Verses 1, 3, 7, and 12.  In all the verses below I have highlighted the lines that rhyme. I will start with Verse 12 as we already know the answer for that one. Where M and B are set in stone And to Congress, R is known L sits and left Beyond his shoulder Is the Fair Folks’ Treasure holder The end of ten by thirteen Is your clue Fence and fixture Central too For finding jewel casque Seek the sounds Of rumble Brush and music Hush. So you end up with: WABTICBH which when you rearrange the letters and use the B’s as blank spaces between the words you get: CHI B WA B T or filling in the letters left out of the abbreviations and removing the B’s - Chicago Water Tower.  As we all know this is the tower in Picture 5.  This also explains the use of the word Hush in the verse, BP needed a word that started with H and rhymed with Brush. On to Verse 1 Fortress north Cold as glass Friendship south Take your task To the number Nine eight two Through the wood No lion fears In the sky the water veers Small of scale Step across Perspective should not be lost In the center of four alike Small, split, Three winged and slight What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight Falls gently In December night Looking back from treasure ground There’s the spout! A whistle sounds. So you end up with: NISPOILA which when you rearrange the letters and use the I’s as blank spaces between the words you get: NO I S I PLA or filling in the letters left out of the abbreviations and removing the I’s – New Orleans Spanish Plaza.  And there is a Spanish Plaza in New Orleans. On to Verse 3 If Thucydides is North of Xenophon Take five steps In the area of his direction A green tower of lights In the middle section Near those Who pass the coliseum With metal walls Face the water Your back to the stairs Feel at home All the letters Are here to see Eighteenth day Twelfth hour Lit by lamplight In truth, be free. This time use the letters that begin the free verse lines: INTANWWFYFAETL which when you rearrange the letters and use the extra WFA as blank spaces between the words you get: FT W WAYNE F LIN A T or filling in the letters left out of the abbreviations and removing the WFA – Ft. Wayne Lincoln Tower.  And there is a Lincoln Tower in Ft. Wayne Indiana built in 1929. And finally Verse 7 At stone wall’s door The air smells sweet Not far away High posts are three Education and Justice For all to see Sounds from the sky Near ace is high Running north, but first across In jewel’s direction Is an object Of Twain’s attention Giant Pole Giant step To the place The casque is kept. I first started anagramming this one using the same method of separating the letters that I used above and ended up with some wrong answers that wilhouse pointed out.  So I think for this one you anagram all the letters together: ATNHEFSNRIIOGGTT which when you rearrange the letters and use the G’s as blank spaces between the words you get HST G NATION G FRET or filling in the letters left out of the abbreviations and removing the G’s – Houston National Forest.  This one didn’t anagram to my satisfaction as you end up with an extra I but there is a Sam Houston National Forest in Houston. Now as cool as all that was this is the really cool part and the reason that I think that this particular solution only deals with the above 4 verses.  Going back to verse 4 and using the words Socrates, Pindar, Apelles, birch along with information that we already have from the pictures(i.e. the latitudes and longitudes) you can as BP put it, “wed one picture with one verse.” Birch = 5 letters, picture 5 we know is Chicago goes with verse 12 which gives us Chicago Water Tower. Apelles = 7 letters, picture 7 we are pretty sure from the longitude and latitude is New Orleans and verse 1 gives us New Orleans Spanish Plaza. Socrates = 8 letters, picture 8 we are pretty sure from the longitude and latitude is Houston and verse 7 gives us Sam Houston National Forest. (sort of) Pindar = 6 letters, by process of elimination picture 6 goes with verse 3 which gives us Ft. Wayne Lincoln Tower. So to sum up. Verse 1 goes with Picture 7 and give us a starting location of Spanish Plaza in New Orleans Verse 3 goes with Picture 6 and gives us a starting location of Lincoln Tower in Ft. Wayne Verse 7 goes with Picture 8 and gives us a starting location of Sam Houston National Forest in Houston. Verse 12 goes with Picture 5 and gives us a starting location of the Water Tower in Chicago. Just some further thoughts that might not lead to anything but are rattling around in my head so I will throw them out for your consideration.  Two of the verses (9 and 11) are all free verse, nothing rhymes but there are two additional verses that do follow the free verse, couplet pattern. The first comes right before the pictures and second right after the pictures.  It is possible that some information is hidden in these two extra verses. Also if you like the idea of the number of the letters in a word indicating a picture(or a verse) then you might find this interesting.  There is only on significant instance of a one letter word in all of the verses(I know that there are various A’s in the verses but I said significant) and that is the v in verse 10.  In addition there is only one 12-letter word in all of the verses, remuneration.  I know that wonderstone’s is also 12 letters but I don’t count that one because you need to add the possessive s in order to get to 12. digger7

Jambone wrote:: So I did some virtual browsing of parks in New Orleans (flickr and webshots again).  I like the possibilities of City Park.... Looking for Jambone's flowers in local live (City Park) I found a close match with clock's shape... hxxp://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=29.987544~-90.098186&style=a&lvl=19&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=2712051&encType=1 I think it's name 'Specimen Gardens' or/and 'The Louisiana Purchase Garden' in Botanical Garden ( hxxp://www.pbase.com/septembermorn/city_park_after_hurricane_katrina ) and then (looking for more), saw the carousel 'Flying Horses' with horses like the one in P7 (with open snouts) near this garden. ... and then... found the miss muffet's dress seems like the sleeve in P7. All of this items (Jambone's flower/miss muffet's dress, carousell with horses) are very close to gardens... Looking for more...

one more... "At the place where jewels abound" ==(tourmaline park/ harlequin park) neighborhood If you stand in Robert E Lee Blvd and Orleans Ave (neighborhood's south border) and go south... "Fifteen rows (streets) down (south) to the ground" (?) 1-. Walker St 2-. Mouton St 3-. Chapelle St 4-. Filmore St 5-. Porteous St 6-. Lane St 7-. Bragg St 8-. Harrison Av 9-. French St 10-. Germain St 11-. Polk St 12-. Brooks St 13-. Kenilworth St 14-. Florida Blvd 15-. Roosevelt Mall Dr=> You are in an entrance of City Park! "In the middle of twenty-one" a football filed have 21 lines... Roosevelt Mall Dr run between two football field... looking for more...

Question:  in 1981-2, would BP have had some kind of aerial view of the city park map?  It's a great match from the air, but would he have known it existed then? c

shecrab wrote:: Question:  in 1981-2, would BP have had some kind of aerial view of the city park map?  It's a great match from the air, but would he have known it existed then? c I think no needed an aerial view (available on that date), just a park's map. Even the clock's elements are so easy to see from the ground... they are just concentrical semi-circles.

hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tad_Gormley_Stadium hxxp://clarionherald.org/20000817/art501.htm Nice find Eljayo!  According to this, the field is located within City Park.  I don't know how I missed this years ago. The verse screams football field.  I had always thought it was college ball.  Can the high school be nearby, Namesakes meeting near this site ?  Hear is your link to City Park from Local.live.  Scroll north and you'll see the field. hxxp://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&c ... &encType=1

If the casque was indeed buried in City Park, it seems to me a lot more likely that the "namesakes" refer to statues of fairies and gnomes that are in Storyland, the children's fairy-tale park. c

Thanks Boogie, My reaction was similar, when I was counting the streets from "jewel abound" neighborhood, and found 15th street (Roosevelt Mall Dr)  entering City Park and then see both fields beside Roosevelt Mall Dr. One of them is obvious (Tad Gormley Stadium), the other field is a running track, but inside is a football field!!! So Roosevelt Mall Dr run between two american football field matching the part of verse " In the middle of twenty-one " Here is the link with the best point of view: hxxp://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=29.989699~-90.09797&style=h&lvl=17&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=2712062&encType=1 (Close welcome window and expand it) Is hard to find other verse's details using internet resources (something like Giant squid's find in hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/hxxp://test.quest4treasure.co.uk/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?p=66992#p66992 ), I think We need to visit the park and take a look of details to complete the verse. keep looking...

If you think that miss muffet's dress seems like the sleeve in P7... I think this mask seems like a shovel... Perhaps the casque spot is in front of Miss Muffet???? Verse isn´t clear...

eljayo wrote:: "In the middle of twenty-one" a football filed have 21 lines... Roosevelt Mall Dr run between two football field... looking for more... Also to consider, the stands around the football field form a U, the 21st letter in the alphabet.

To me, the sound of friends fills the afternoon hours represents the football field as well. In 1992, the Tad Gormely Field hosted the Summer Olympic Trials and the entire surface was reconstructed. I hope it is not supposed to be there and maybe be at the smaller field.  Maybe only three stand watch is the key.

Check your pic and tell me what you think (perhaps this is my drunker's purple elephant? ) In fact, the whale isn't the only one, each square on this purple checker seems to have something (gnomes included)

Hey guys, just wanted to point a few more things in the image I haven't seen mentioned: The outline of the clock doesn't look symmetrical to me. From the outlined things in other images, I would take this as a clear indication there is an outline on one side or the other. It's clearest at the level of the mask's mouth. There are 2 white dots in with the stars in the arch. I see a lot of other tiny dots but I'm not sure how many are significant. If you raise the contrast with a photo editor some are more obvious than others.

eljayo wrote:: Check your pic and tell me what you think (perhaps this is my drunker's purple elephant? ) In fact, the whale isn't the only one, each square on this purple checker seems to have something (gnomes included) I drank two glasses of absinthe and still couldn't see it. Sorry.

The Giant Squid wrote:: I drank two glasses of absinthe and still couldn't see it. Sorry. yes... I know This kind of shadow drawings is so subjective...

Forrest wrote:: Hey guys, just wanted to point a few more things in the image I haven't seen mentioned: The outline of the clock doesn't look symmetrical to me. From the outlined things in other images, I would take this as a clear indication there is an outline on one side or the other. It's clearest at the level of the mask's mouth. There are 2 white dots in with the stars in the arch. I see a lot of other tiny dots but I'm not sure how many are significant. If you raise the contrast with a photo editor some are more obvious than others. I've also noticed that the clock doesn't look symmetrical.  If you look at the section even with the mouth of the mask, the left end looks more curved and the right end looks more squared or angled.  Also if you look at the same section and compare how far it hangs over the section below it on each side, it appears the right end hangs over more than the left end.  If I had to guess, the left side is the outline of whatever, because the sleeve is thrown in there on that side to add more shape to the outline.  If you take a closer look at the area where the sleeve is, it even looks like the checkerboard pattern is almost molded around the sleeve as opposed to looking like the sleeve is simply in front of it. As for the 2 white dots, I hadn't really noticed them before and figured they were probably marks made during the printing process.  However, after taking a closer look they do appear to be an intended part of the picture.  Whether or not they are of any significance beats the heck out of me.

Some of the dots do not appear in my copy of The Secret . The two bright white ones in the online version (straight up from the P in PRESERVATION) are not in the book. However, two other ones (straight up from the 9 in 19 and from the top-right narcissus) do appear in both.

We know some of the pics contain longitudes and latitudes (thanks Fox!). N.O. is in the box described by latitudes 29 and 30, and longitudes 90 and 91. in P7 we have 90 and 29, and 91 is backwards as 19 (that backwards trick was used in P4 as well), but what of 30? So I looked for a 30, and sure enough, there are 30 stars. Forgive me if this has already been pointed out.

I've been thinking about the "horse head" thingy in P7. I realize it may be a rough likeness of Louisiana. But you've got to admit it also brings chess to mind, appearing like a knight on a chess-board pattern. So I Googled chess and New Orleans, one click led to another, and I found that one of the greatest chess players in history, Paul Morphy, lived in New Orleans. His house is now Brennan's restaurant, famous for having invented Bananas Foster. Bringing us full circle, there are a few horse-head poles on the curb outside of Brennan's. There is a Paul Morphy St. NNW of the French Quarter, but it is small and appears residential.

forest_blight wrote:: I've been thinking about the "horse head" thingy in P7. I realize it may be a rough likeness of Louisiana. But you've got to admit it also brings chess to mind, appearing like a knight on a chess-board pattern. So I Googled chess and New Orleans, one click led to another, and I found that one of the greatest chess players in history, Paul Morphy, lived in New Orleans. His house is now Brennan's restaurant, famous for having invented Bananas Foster. Bringing us full circle, there are a few horse-head poles on the curb outside of Brennan's. There is a Paul Morphy St. NNW of the French Quarter, but it is small and appears residential. Aye, and, there are, I dunno, several thousand horse head poles in the city.

forest_blight wrote:: I've been thinking about the "horse head" thingy in P7. I realize it may be a rough likeness of Louisiana. If the horsehead isn't the outline of LA, we need to find another outline in the picture that matches. I spent a couple hours trying to do that and was unable to. I think it's just the state outline.

We're established that the flower in the right corner is a narcissus. What is the flower in the left corner? A lilly? I don't know flowers.

I think they're both intended to be narcissus (narcissuses? narcissi?).

From the sky view at local.live.com, Lee Circle reminded me of the clock face in Image7.  The arrow on the outer face, just beyond the roman numerals, looks like it could be the direction in which the traffic flows.  Then I counted the steps from the monument to the ground and it looks like 15.  Still looking for a better pic.  Maybe you guys in N.O. can look at it.  Here are two pics.  Do jewels abound around there? hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/neworleans/523867003/ hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/anearthling/373411784/

boogieman wrote:: From the sky view at local.live.com, Lee Circle reminded me of the clock face in Image7.  The arrow on the outer face, just beyond the roman numerals, looks like it could be the direction in which the traffic flows.  Then I counted the steps from the monument to the ground and it looks like 15.  Still looking for a better pic.  Maybe you guys in N.O. can look at it.  Here are two pics.  Do jewels abound around there? hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/neworleans/523867003/ hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/anearthling/373411784/ Lee Circle has crossed my mind a handful of times. Hell, I had a drink there last night (at the Circle Bar). But, I dunno, it's a really bad place to be digging (lots and lots and lots of onlookers, in the middle of a hotel/museum/office building district). The commercial building immediately behind Lee in the second image is the old headquarters of K&B Drugs, a huge drugstore throughout this region before they were purchased by Eckerd, IIRC. There was a sculpture garden in front of the office building that has since been moved to City Park.

Anyone else see what I see? Look very closely...

i'm not sure what you're seeing forest, my eyes hurt too bad, since i had to read all of this thread to see where everyone's thoughts were: here's the mask tho, lol : hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/nerboo/213 ... 564639462/ even has the stick that same site has a wolf and castle and gnomes

Look closely, slaps. The upper left halves of these 5 squares are purple, and the lower right are bluer. It's very subtle, and true only for those 5 squares. I had to use a large magnifying glass with underlighting (my favorite Christmas gift!) to see it.

That took SOME study to see that.  WOW!  I haven't read enough of this hunt, so excuse me for being out of place...  Do you have a theory on that particular pattern of triangles?

forest_blight wrote:: Anyone else see what I see? Look very closely... I see the two different colors.

Nope, no theory, but I though it was interesting. Let's see what people think. Still seeing new things even after 3 years... who'd a thunk?

forest, i think the checkered pattern was just to lead us to harlequin park. i think bclews mentioned harlequin park  and eliayo had the 15 streets down to city park to go with verse 2. i did think your lines could make RR and there is a historic train garden at city park. the football fields- "in the middle of 21" the peristyle building--the shape of the clock--------does anyone know how many lions are on that building? the barking horse--the carousel hxxp://flickr.com/photos/ventriloblog/1 ... otostream/ the puffed sleeves--storyland (and maybe my humpty dumpty w/stick also) the two designs (flowers?) to left and right of clock face remind me of the two angels at the entrance of City park peter pan----hxxp://www.roadsideamerica.com/tips/getAttraction.php?tip_AttractionNo==4433 the hand in the image looks like an archer's hand (to me). is there an archery range  there in City Park? or maybe a Robin Hood in Storyland? or sherwood forest? i had a great "aha" moment this morning when i found this in the Botanical Garden (rose garden): hxxp://www.neworleanspast.com/art/id49.html but i'm not sure how long it has been there the dirty nails are probably his way to tell us to dig, lol. (or the big bad wolf) are the 3 little pigs in storyland? for only 3 stand watch? night-knight, gnomes and dwarfs or trolls? surely there's a fairy or ogre. i really feel it's right there at Storyland.

slappybuns wrote:: ...the two designs (flowers?) to left and right of clock face remind me of the two angels at the entrance of City park... Jambone found those symbols in this flower -- hxxp://www.agilitynut.com/06/3/story3.jpg

I'm showing this again for the new guy Ringo, assuming everyone else has seen this.  The most glaring thing in the image is the one, maybe two arched bridges over the water.  Can you see this color difference?  My guess, the bridges in City Park...

If the bridge idea is correct the Scout Island in City Park should be looked at. The bridges could likely connect the Island. I would say that the treasure is in either City Park or Armstrong Park. I am leaning more toward City Park as well. The reason I think this is from a brief look at maps of Armstrong Park on the Internet I did not see anything that looked like 15 rows or could have been 15 rows. With Mardi Gras passed the members that live near New Orleans should now contact the N.O. Parks and Recreation Department. They will have or direct you to someone that has maps and renovation records of these two parks from the early 1980's as well as pre-Katrina records and post-Katrina clean up records all of this will be important in reconstructing the park as it was in the early '80s. If an area has changed significantly then you may have to use GPS to find the location. In City Park I would check Storyland, Marconi Meadows, Scout Island and one other place I put in a previous post but do not rember off the top of my head. Also someone else recomended a place in City Park that seemed to match the verse. Here's to findinig this casque

peter pan and tinkerbell (namesake) and fairy dust. and twinkling stars, that's how i remember my book of peter pan. hxxp://www.bestofneworleans.com/dispatc ... _feat3.php hope they haven't been close to tinkerbelle and cinderella with stars: hxxp://3dlaseretchedcrystals.com/images ... s_eBay.gif the pumpkin hxxp://flickr.com/photos/gjcharlet/5069 ... otostream/ and i always imagine mother goose up in the sky: look at the checker pattern and the clock hands! hxxp://flickr.com/photos/cinderellamom/ ... 158567006/ hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/gjcharlet/506917922/ but look at the big bad wolf's necklace and the swirls between his eyes: hxxp://flickr.com/photos/gjcharlet/5069 ... otostream/ the swirls make me think of the hand in the image her mouth? hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/mittensohm ... et-918626/ there is a clock behind the little mermaid: hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/edward-mel ... 463874293/ look at the clock hands and the checkered pattern! hxxp://flickr.com/photos/cinderellamom/ ... 158567006/

but....ummmmm.........not sure if that is in new orleans storyland the clock hands were perfect and now...since i'm hooked on alice's tea party i find pictures of the boston tea party, blah, they are all connected somehow, lol

I will be in NO for a few days middle of March. If someone has a request for photos I'd be glad to take some. wilhouse

Lots of pictures in and around the Peristyle in City Park!

More pics in and around Storyland at City Park would be great.

see if there is a white rabbit and cinderella's  pumpkin (palace for a night!) and her fairy godmother  (grandmother clock) or hickory dickory clock or maybe a mirror and mantle where alice walks thru and meets fairyland and humpty dumpty or the old woman and the shoe could be a castle and if there is a place to dig behind the mermaid's clock and all the fairies and trolls and dwarves and tinkerbelles (namesakes) or the entrance to storyland. is rapunzel or rumpelstiltskin there? 'cause the clock does sort of look like a lock, and she was locked in a tower, right? the three pigs and three bears, which made me think of goldilocks.....goldi---locks any grandfathers in fairy tales? (grandfather clock) or any "black arrows) , robert louis stevenson, the clock hands could be arrows, or robin hood or maybe something about "the brothers Grimm", namesakes? boogieman's bridge anything with "fantasy" do fairies meet in gardens? could you find out how long that archer has been there in the sculpture garden? just some pictures of everything, lol, thanks wilhouse!! and knights, ok?

wilhouse wrote:: I will be in NO for a few days middle of March. If someone has a request for photos I'd be glad to take some. wilhouse pictures of Spanish Plaza would be great. thanks

In Storyland, see if there are 3 gnomes or 3 mushrooms/toadstools that "stand watch".

eljayo wrote:: If you think that miss muffet's dress seems like the sleeve in P7... I think this mask seems like a shovel... Perhaps the casque spot is in front of Miss Muffet???? Verse isn´t clear... Still convinced there is a good place to dig... (some inches beyond miss mufet's feet)

maybe right between those 2 large flowers eliayo! great pictures!

so.... now we just need to figure out what the little flying guy on the clock means... the random dashes on the outer rim of the clock.  and why the checker pattern starts to go all wavy towards the bottom of the image.  also... have we located the horse?  i remember someone posting a picture of these horse polls on a street.  BUT THOSE FLOWERS RIGHT ON!!!!!!!!

I agree that City Park is the likely park but I am not sure Storyland is the place. We need to find out if Storyland was fenced in baxk in the early '80s. If it was it is not likely in Storyland. We will definately need the help of the Parks and Recreation Department on this one more then anyother. Not only do we have the suttle changes that 27 years bring but we also have the larger changes that Katrina brought. The P&RD likely has pre-katrina maps and pictures as well as maps and pictures from the early '80s. Not just of City and Armstrong park but of sites in other parks that may match the verse. If Storyland was not fenced in and something looked as though it matched back then. Then Storyland should be given thought.

regulus, i think that little flying guy is what led us to harlequin park (and the checkered design), and the roads named for jewels, and 15 streets down from that is city park (from verse 2).  but the baseball cap, or jockey hat, i dunno.  i do like peter pan because he is flying, and the stars make me think of fairy dust. (2nd star to the right and straight on til morning, or something like that, to neverland)  there's lots of characters in peter pan, just not sure if storyland has them.  i've tried to find images in the outlines of his body, like where his hand touches his leg, i could imagine a crocodile (who swallowed the clock), but that's just my imagination probably. (most likely, lol) when i first got my book, i thought the splash of green between his legs was the jewel, lol. not until later did i realize it was above the clock. do your books have that splash of green between his legs? the clock hands look like an owl or bug or something to me. i think maltedfalcon said the barking horse was shaped like new orleans, but i like the carousel horse. i figured the checkered pattern got wavy because it was material, like a flag, or the white rabbit's jacket i have no idea what those scratches (columns) are on the clock scottrocks, why do we need a fence? i've been using verse 2 with this. i just looked at the carousel horse head again and it looks like a checkered pattern around the top, look: hxxp://flickr.com/photos/ventriloblog/1 ... otostream/ jambone, mushrooms could also  be "palaces to shelter their heads", i like that! looks like a mushroom behind this gnome. hxxp://flickr.com/photos/nerboo/2136094 ... 564639462/

regulus, i hope that didn't sound like i figured out city park, i'm still new to the hunt. the people here found city park long time ago. i'm just having fun with the hunt

If the cask is in new orleans, then Katrina, Dennis, even Andrew might have destroyed it, washed it away, or buried it under tons of rubble.

If the cask is in new orleans, then Katrina, Dennis, even Andrew might have destroyed it, washed it away, or buried it under tons of rubble. [/quote] We have thought about this much and have discovered that City Park was out of the floded area. and thinking from a psychological aspect if BP realy knew what he was doing he would have burried this casque in area that was not likely to flod in the event of a hurricane.

regulus wrote:: also... have we located the horse? That "horse head" might be a decent match for a dragon (the dragon is a slide), or maybe the big bad wolf, in Storyland: Neither is as exact of a match as I'd like them to be, but I'll throw them out there anyway.

the dashes on the clock face is what I was talking about around the rim of the clock face.  they seem randomly placed, i can't find a pattern.  Palaces to shelter there heads for a night!  was from that book that the guys found.  I remember that it pertained to a hotel in New Orleans, Fox? Boogie? FB? anyone... confirm?  Obviously that line has been nailed and it couldn't be anything else but the book quote? -regulus

you're right regulus, that part was from the book and talking about a hotel in new orleans....but because it's near the end of the verse, just seems like it would have to be pinpointing  close to the casque, i think or maybe to  a sign with "new orleans"  or a castle (king arthur's?) and since fairies like to play tricks maybe "hotel" would be like "the old woman who lived in a shoe" gnomes are considered guardians of  the treasures, so maybe a treasure chest in storyland? or a bank, lol or a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow..... look this building has our moon on it: hxxp://flickr.com/photos/48352971@N00/2129330277/ jambone, here's three mushrooms, and the moon could be the gem hxxp://flickr.com/photos/gjcharlet/5069 ... otostream/ here's a closer look at the clock, looking at it like this, you see the building arch behind it, hxxp://flickr.com/photos/gjcharlet/5069 ... otostream/ regulus, i have to go back thru all the pictures now 'cause you got me wondering about the dashes in the clock, oh boy but this ladybug rollercoaster's eyes remind me of the clock hands: hxxp://flickr.com/photos/lisamulvey/309143323/

We do not need a fence. What I am saying is that today Storyland is all fenced in and could not be gotten into without admission. If it was that way back in the early '80's it is not likely the casques location. Giant Squid did not see anything in Storyland that looked like it resembled the verse. The Harlequin Park idea is worth looking at. I will try to find some maps and see what I come up with. Giant Squid also mentioned some sort of a garden type setup at the federal building that resembled the verse but not the image. He also said he would not dig there. If this arangement has 15 rows down and 21 of something end to end it may be the place. To give this more confidence we need to think about the last part namesakes meeting near this site. If a statue or other likeness of whoever the federal building is named after is relatively close to this location this would make it more likely. The three stands wtch should not be as considered as other parts of the verse because they could have been trees or other items easily blowen or washed away by Katrina. Getting permission to dig at the federal building would be involved. Another thought we may be focusing too much on the words jewels abound. That may mean just one jewel the one you will get if you find the casque.

Katrina was the worst and most unpredictable thing that ever happened to that area-- evidenced by the fact that the ACE didn't properly repair or reinforce the dikes that could have alleviated the storm's rampage.  They were hit by Dennis shortly after, which traveled as far as Tennessee.

My understanding is that the French Quarter was not heavily damaged, owing to its slightly higher elevation. Most of the ground there is in its original position, and adding or subtracting a few inches of soil here and there likely won't affect a casque buried 3 ft. deep. Hopefully it was buried in the French Quarter.

Hopefully...  Incidentally, I have heard some contend that the mask looks like Louis Armstrong... While this may be true, I think his face is too fat (even when he's NOT blowing his trumpet mightily); an early picture of ray Charles seems to be closer, and the 'eyeless' mask could be correlated to his blindness.  Just a thought.

that is an interesting idea. are there any statues of ray charles around?

No clue.  He was born in Albany, Georgia.

The mask may not be Louie Armstrong. It is all together possible that the mask was used solely as a city identifier. If that is the case then City Park is likely the park. My best guess would be the images that tend to point to Storyland may be right or they may be another clue to City Park. I would say city park looks like the most likely place this casque would be. Another way to look at the mask is that it could be the face of whoever the namesake is. The correct location of the casque could have a statue or bust that looks like the mask near by. I know many took this idea to mean Armstrong Park and the statue in that park. However a brief look at maps online did not show anything that looked as though it matched or could have matched the verse. Another clue could be the word preservation on the clock. As far as can tell Armstrong never played at Preservation Hall. Look at all the parts of City Park named after somebody if they played at Preservation Hall this could be the srea.

Well, Preservation Jazz Hall is just that-- a Jazz Hall.  What Louis Armstrong played was the Blues.  Even literally, it's too far from being a match.  However, I said that the mask looks like Ray Charles.  Even the top part looks just like his hairline...

Kuh-Lai-Bah-Ti wrote:: Well, Preservation Jazz Hall is just that-- a Jazz Hall.  What Louis Armstrong played was the Blues.  Even literally, it's too far from being a match.  However, I said that the mask looks like Ray Charles.  Even the top part looks just like his hairline... I think the mask more strongly resembles a young Louis Armstrong anyway. Occam's razor here.  Louis Armstrong is strongly identified with New Orleans (which, all other indicators point to, being the city for this image).  What would the significance of Ray Charles be?

Never one to challenge Mr. Occam - this should visuallize a mute point: hxxp://www.maskworld.com/english/produc ... g-mask--44

This is what I was thinking:

Personally, I think it's too generic to resemble either one with any certainty. Also, it's MOOT point, not MUTE. Unless you're being quiet about it, that is. And moot means "Open to debate".

shecrab wrote:: Personally, I think it's too generic to resemble either one with any certainty. Also, it's MOOT point, not MUTE. Unless you're being quiet about it, that is. And moot means "Open to debate". I mix my metaphores quite regularly. (I do know the diference between the two) I tended for MUTE because it shouldn't be worth discussing. The mask is related to Mardi Gras. We know this casque should end up in New Orleans. We know that Ray Charles and Louis Armstrong were not white. I have reasons to believe why it is white - which was part of my previous solution.

Well, here's Louis. I don't think the mask resembles him that much. Just, as I said, generically (African-American male.) The jawline is not full enough for me to identify it as Armstrong.

Not in King Louie's case-- it's a determination of whether we need to see a Key or a Mute... If anything, the Ray Charles idea is a 'Blind Alley,' on which I will remain mute.

In any case, the image gets you to the place where the casque was buried.  I think there is concrete evidence that Image7 is N'orleans.  That is indisputable! (In my opinion ) Whether it is just a Mardi Gras mask or Armstrong might not matter much.  I think the task now is to take the verse and make it New orleans.  None of the verses remark about a mask or Armstrong.  Or do they?  Finding the starting point from the verse will lead you to recognize some things in the image, but not all.  We know there are visual clues and....can't think....clues that are not visual that are worded in the verse that will put you on the X. edit:   hxxp://www.pbase.com/septembermorn/city_park_after_hurricane_katrina Just adding this for the new hunters, tell me these first two picks don't look like the top of the clock.  I know they are not exact, but the painting is a clock and the real things are bridges.  One right on top of the other.  Literally in the painting, figuratively in the pictures of City Park.(gee, that was smart)  Making the verse fit is the hard part. ...and another As the sound of friends fill the afternoon hours hxxp://www.pbase.com/septembermorn/image/47200780

"blind alley"  that is hilarious! just about as funny as Trohn using mute for moot when discussing a famous trumpet player! Love it guys!

Thank YOU!  SOMEONE got it!  See boogie?  I know-- I'm going to Hell for the blind alley bit.  But Horse's Head started it!

This is a match for the arched tops of the grandfather clock. This stone bridge is literally a stones throw from the sundial. Seems to be popular location for taking your photo. There are more good pictures online.

bclews wrote:: Here's a site with many pictures of Storyland.  Unfortunately the site is about the damage and recovery efforts. hxxp://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... en%26lr%3D One thing that stood out for me was the arch bridge (near the bottom of the page) is a match for the wooden top of the clock.  In fact, in one image it appears that there may be two bridges side-by-side like the top of the clock. Yes, bclews made that find back in 2006...

I agree this is definately New Orleans and that the odds are City Park is the location. As I have stated previously I think the Peter Pan image on the clock is telling you City Park. The sun dial idea is one to be checked out. I however think the 15 rows down to the ground and in the part about 21 is much more literal. It sounds to me like this is talking about a terace of some sort similer to the location that the Cleveland casque was found. The Mardi Gras mask is likely who the namesakes meeting is. Whoever this is it is likely that a statue or other likeness is close to the casque location. I hope to send this to the City Park office soon to see if they can help. If City Park is correct then odds are the casque survived Katrina.

Did Peter Pan often wear a baseball cap?

A big hello from the Crescent City to all my fellow hunters.  An unexpected occurance happened on our way back from DisneyWorld and I have somehow found myself staying in the Big Easy for at least one more day (maybe more).  My family & I briefly wandered around City Park hoping to find THE thing that breaks this whole thing open but didnt have any luck.  If I have my way (and sweet talk my wife and mother-n-law) I expect to spend a few hours tomorrow, Tuesday the 1st, pulling some more recon.  Are there any other hunters who are in N.O. right now that would like to join me? If there is any specific places you would like me to check or take pics of, let me know.  Unfortunately, I think Story Land is closed...but I really don't think that is the location...since you have to pay to get in.  I really think the casque will be buried somewhere within the regular park...and what a big, beautiful park at that.  My senses were tingling while walking around there today and really think that this is THE park where the N.O. casque is. Let me know what you all want me to do...the sooner the better because I am not sure how early I will be heading out in the morning.  Sorry about such short notice.  Let's find this casque once and for all...what do you think?

Sorry, 2 other quick comments.  All around the park, almost every plaque reads something to the effect of "Constructed by/for the FRIENDS of City Park".  Could this be our "friends" in V2? also...sorry about not being able to link up a map photo...but, if you do a google map search (or probably any other map search) find the long oval shaped loop to the northwest of the Museum..the drive is called Roosevelt Mall Drive.  At the top of the drive is Beau Bassich Circle...in the very middle of this circle is the remains of what appeared to be a small carousel containing (i believe) 6 horses..which are no longer there.  It doesnt look like a carousel anymore but I am sure that is what it was.  I would love to (and am still trying) to locate a picture of this ...wondering if our Peter Pan may have been on it.  There are also 3 "sets" of eagle statues running the length of Roosevelt Mall Drive...could these be our 3 standing watch?  They sure appear to be standing watch...

go and dig it up by the sundial near the casino

Do dig around the sundial and if you have no luck check around the park for any type of statue or sculpture that resembles the mask. Two other things you could do if you have time is talk to the people that run City Park about the Secret and show them the image and verse and walk around Armstrong Park as this could be the park but I do not think it is. Another reason to think the sundial idea may be right is because the Clock is such a large part of the image. While other images have clocks they were generally small and insignificant to the image. It is likely that clocks were how the artist chose to hide clues. Alternatively the fact that many other images have clocks is so this one would not stand out. If the face of the clock resembles the sundial you may be in the right place. Dig as many other places as you think match the verse as you have time. It may be a good idea to talk to the park people first as they may be able to get you to the right location fast. I know I have rambled on a bit but I am excited about the possibility of finding a casque. Anyway find this casque. GOOD LUCK and GODSPEED!!

Hi, my first post here.  I looked, but couldn't find this mentioned.  There is most definitely a Peter Pan in the City Park Storyland.  He is up in the crow's nest of the pirate ship, swordfighting with Captain Hook.  There is a photo here: hxxp://neworleanscitypark.com/storyland_kids.html Don't know how it might apply, but the crocodile from the story did swallow a clock (as well as the Captain's hand) and was always ticking loudly when nearby.  There is a large alligator figure in Storyland, however, it does not appear to specifically represent the character from Peter Pan. Maskit

lol, maskit, you're a person of my own heart!! i believe peter pan and the croc have all been mentioned, just not sure if anyone's hunting

I have long thought Storyland as well. If Fox comes up empty we should find out first if Storyland was acessable in the middle of the night back in the early '80s (i.e. no fence around the area). If it was then we should get maps of the area back in the early '80s from the New Orleans parks department and see if back then it matched the verse.

poke around the 12 and the 3 ......."3 stand watch"

This is fox's wife....dug around the sundial and found nothing....go to verse 7 for further discussion.....

hi vixen (female fox ) , i'm glad fox got you involved!  hope you all had fun hunting! and thanks for keeping us informed on your ideas!

While I was in New Orleans recently, I was in Preservation Hall for a concert.  I couldn't help but notice the grill work over the door.  It looks hauntingly like the curved area over the clock in Image 7. wilhouse

nice pic wilhouse...i have one almost exactly like that on my digital camera just waiting to be downloaded and shared once I get home. A little about my research around City Park.  My 8 yr old son and I went out there with a shovel and a probe in the early afternoon a couple of days ago...our focus...that darn sundial.  I took lots of pics of it but really couldnt find anything else that is depicted in our picture.  I do like the fact that the sundial is right next to the Casino Building which may be our "21".  While looking through the glass door adjacent to the sundial, I noticed a lovely staircase with 15 steps (which I took a picture of).  could this be our In the middle of 21, 15 rows down to the ground?  Possibly...but I think I may be trying to force things.  There were several posts (which appeared to have once held a rope or chain around the grassy area holding the sundial) but unfortunately, there were only 19 of them.  I was hoping and praying for 21 of them because the sundial would be in the center of 21.  While probing...or should I say...attempting to probe the ground around the sundial (especially near the 12 and the 3) I noticed that the ground was VERY hard, pretty much un-probable.  I sat on a nearby bench to think of other options when my son called to me and said "Dad, come here and look at what I found."  As he was circling the sundial, he stepped into a fairly deep sinkhole...and when I stuck the probe in...I found nothing but very soft soil.  Now thoughts start streaming through my head... :  Hmmm, a casque buried 3 1/2 feet deep...along with several feet of Katrina water on top may have collapsed causing a pretty little sink hole.  Without trying to raise suspicion, I sat on the grass and begun easily digging with my bare hands.  I took a break from digging and moved my probe around when "thud"..hollowness!  My son and I stared at each other thinking "no way, did we find it?"  Nope, turned out to be a strange, large, hollow tree trunk from a tree that is nowhere nearby.  I really wanted to break out the shovel but didnt want to upset other park goers.  My son suggested we come back after dark to really go at it with a shovel...and just in time, Mother Nature unleashed one heck of a downpour onto us. We, along with my wife in tow, went back later on that night and broke out the shovel.  Digging was soooo easy in this spot.  I know we got down to over 4 ft deep without hitting anything.  I probed down another 3 to 4 feet deeper from the bottom of the hole but hit nothing.  With my luck, we dug right past it... I briefly tried digging or probing at other spots but the ground was very hard. I really dont know about this site.  This N.O. pic just doesnt have all of the confirmers that the Chicago & Cleveland pics held.  The "bridge" which looks alot like the top of the clock was in sight nearby the sundial but there really was nothing else there.  I took pictures of the sundial, other statues, bridges and scenery of other parts of the park which I will try to get up after we get home. It was after our dig that my wife came up with her theory of V1 and P7..which I am really buying into.  I had considered Jackson Square long ago and when she started describing her theory of V1, I took another look.  It was then that I was stunned by the resemblence of the P7 clock and the layout of Jackson Square.  It is quite striking I must say. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I noticed that the P's where both the casques which were found contained:  City confirmer (prominent bldg), park confirmer (Bowman statue or Greek theme), and actual items/things found in the park.  Now, when looking at our N.O. pic I came up with this idea. *City confirmer - lat/long & Mardi Gras mask (possibly Preservation "hall") *Location w/in city - Preservation = French Quarters *Park Confirmer - Layout of clock looks just like Jackson Square *actual items - hmmm, the clock on St Louis Cathedral looks similar to our clock face...?... Problem is...I really don't think burying or digging up something w/in the park is feasable.  This leads me to believe it may be somewhere nearby.  I have taken many many pics of all angles of the Square itself as well as other nearby grassy areas nearby which I hope to get online for all to see soon. Almost, and I repeat almost everything in the picture can be explained in or around Jackson Sq.  :  The clock face, the moon (moonwalk), the moon/stars (city manhole covers have moon and stars), our Peter Pan (Sq is on corner of St Peters & Peter), horse head (many of the horse head poles around...as well as around most of the French Quarters)...but alas, no mask.  I am beginning to believe that this is simply a Mardi Gras mask and nothing more. My wife likes an area w/in the park "one giant step" away from the "giant pole" (flagpole) which is right next to a large bush...but other than that, pretty much in the open.  I am beginning to like an area between Jackson Square and the Mississippi river.  After exiting the square you cross the main street, walk up a large set of stairs where a cannon sits.  From there you can look down (giant step?) to a small grassy area behind a very large wall...well hidden from passerbys...especially at night time.  Unfortunately, I will not be able to explore this area more fully since we will be heading out of the Big Easy tomorrow morning.  I really think this area should have some more research done on it.  I am not saying scrap the whole City Park theory because that park just looks like a place to bury a casque...but Jackson Square should be looked at. Sorry about rambling and the possibility of missing anything...things have been a bit hectic these past few days here and this stop was not even planned...it just happened due to a family emergency.  If I can explain anything else, just ask...

I like the idea of Jackson Square as well. I still think the 15 rows etc verse is correct. The part about heads for the night is no coinsidence. I like Jackson Square because from what I saw in your pictures it looks like their could be or at one time could have been 15 rows and 21 of something and of corse the statue of Jackson. I think we can say Jackson Square, City Park or Armstrong Park has the casque.

scottrocks7 wrote:: I like Jackson Square because from what I saw in your pictures it looks like their could be or at one time could have been 15 rows and 21 of something and of corse the statue of Jackson. Just so you know , there are 15 steps on the landing across the street- artillary square.

"It was after our dig that my wife came up with her theory of V1 and P7..which I am really buying into.  I had considered Jackson Square long ago and when she started describing her theory of V1, I took another look.  It was then that I was stunned by the resemblence of the P7 clock and the layout of Jackson Square.  It is quite striking I must say." Well, then you'd have to come up with a better verse for houston. If you do, maybe I can get closer to where it is!! wilhouse

wilhouse wrote:: "It was after our dig that my wife came up with her theory of V1 and P7..which I am really buying into.  I had considered Jackson Square long ago and when she started describing her theory of V1, I took another look.  It was then that I was stunned by the resemblence of the P7 clock and the layout of Jackson Square.  It is quite striking I must say." Well, then you'd have to come up with a better verse for houston. If you do, maybe I can get closer to where it is!! wilhouse I believe he meant Verse 7 with image 7.

hello fox it sure is exciting to dig for a casque!! i was courious about your dig location, was it at the 1:30 spot which would be in the middle of 21 and 3 stands watch is near

no, I did not dig at the 1:30 spot.  Most of the area around the entire sundial had very hard ground.  The only place I actually dug was at the 3 (or slightly off of it towards the 4)...since this is the only place I found very soft dirt.  I focused on this spot because it not only had soft dirt...but P7 shows the second hand of the clock pointing at the 3.  This was also the only place around the sundial where there was a strange wooden post.  It just looked like a nice place to bury a casque...you know, between the 3 and the post...a very distinctive spot.  I took quite a few pics of the area which I will try to get online somewhere as soon as possible.  I should be rolling into my hometown tomorrow (Sunday) evening so the pics should be up sometime Monday I hope. Sure wish I could have dug it up for you guys but it looks like another one of us (sans Sir Egg ) will have that pleasure.  Nah...even the Eggman is welcome!

I have a new idea for New Orleans. In my last trip to New Orleans, I believe I've found the right location, but time did not allow for digging. The spot has not been mentioned in any posts I've found. If you live there, or are seriously going there I will share what I've found. Please email me privately [email protected] Thank you, Chad

chad, the hunters here all share ideas freely. we are not in it for the prize, heck, the prize may not even exist anymore. we just want them found. please share what you have found and maybe number three can be found. welcome to the hunt!

Chad, some of us have been at this for over 20 years, and have spent hundreds of hours digging.  We have all posted every single thing we had on the subject. Scour the postings and decide for yourself, but you might find out that others can help you as much if not more than you can help them. Welcome! wilhouse

Yes please do tell us. None of us will do any diging without the appropriate permision and we will bring you along if want.

Please speak for yourself, Scott. Personally, I have no intention of bringing along anyone if I dig. I can't afford the expense.

What i ment was they colud join us at their own exspence and we would try to dig at a time conviniant for them.

I used to think the Mardi Gras mask was just to confirm New Orleans. I now think that the face is an exact representation of whoever the namesakes meetin is. If we can match this face to an exact statue bust etc we have likely found or will be very close to the place to dig. I further think this because their are alot of clues to New Orleans in the image but relatively little to indicate a park. The Jackson Square idea is one to consider but even back then it would have been hard to get in a burry a casque in the middle of the night. My interpritation of the image is this: the coordinates of new orleans are in the corners of the clock, the word preservation is a clue to New Orleans and the clock face is either not a clue or a repsentation of Jackson Square/St Louis Cathedral. Locals would know though that he could not sneak into Jackson Square in the middle of the night and burrie a casque. I think the Peter Pan like image on the clock is a clue to City Park as is the checkerboard background (Storyland). The mardi Gras mask is of a spacific person and statute, bust etc that will get you to or close enough to the dig site that it could be seen from this statue bust etc. If we ever see what JJP looked at to paint the mask we will find the casque. I will revisit New Orleans later for now I am working on St. Louis and Charlston I think I am close on both.

scottrocks7 wrote:: If we ever see what JJP looked at to paint the mask we will find the casque. I've mentioned this before, but i see a great resemblence with the Sidney Bechet Monument in Congo Square, a part of Armstrong Park. link to one image another image at hxxp://www.gnocdc.org/IMAGES-nbhd/iberv ... uare-t.jpg The statue is just a head on a stalk, and the facial features are a good fit (and not in that "they all look alike to me" way). For more information about this section of the park and its significance, visit these sites: hxxp://www.soulofamerica.com/index.php? ... 60,0,0,1,0 hxxp://jocelyn.richez.free.fr/NOjazz.html On that last link, you'll also notice an "arc of lights" at the entrance to Armstrong Park, if we would like to remap verse 5 to this image.

I absolutely love that concept catherwood.  The mask/face does look like old sydney bechet.  I can even see how it resembles the pedestal that the head sits on.  Something sticking out of the ground with a face on it.....like it alot.  It all goes back to Presecvation Hall where these faces will haunt the place forever. Maybe the dead hand that holds the mask is suppose to represent just that.  The spirit.

The Sidney Bechet bust was unveiled May 6, 1997.

You are a bummer FB.

forest_blight wrote:: The Sidney Bechet bust was unveiled May 6, 1997. The bust itself is a replica of the famous 1960 original in Juan-les-Pins, France. -- Let's all go dig up France! btw, the original even looks white in this photo, like our mask: hxxp://www.student-job-france.com/image ... bechet.jpg

the mask looks like one of those molds, for plaster models i think thats what they are called. looking around i found this... hxxp://www.panoramio.com/photo/1727111 of louis armstrong they kinda look alike, anyway good idea that, the mask may look like someone

Judgeing from the imageit looks like either Armstrong Park or City Park is the New Orleans casque location. Jackson Square was gated shut after hours so despitde some possible evidence to Jackson Square it is not likely to be the location. Of the two I would say City Park is more likely because what I have seen of Armstrong park I do not see anything that looked as though it matched or could have matched the verse.

Yes, Jackson Square is highly unlikely......but what about right around it?

so... countinuing from the p11 thread... Louis Armstrong Park is a better fit for the image. first - its an arm.... 2nd, the image of the arm, I say is a zombie, you said it was a loup garoux,I will point out it in no way looks wolf like, merely skinny and dirty kind of like a dead persons... But even if you are correct, it still points towards Louis Armstrong park and the voodo queens house which is right across the street from the park... - quoting from Haunted America Tours website- "Many tales of Voodoo Queens turning peole into this wild beast have surfaced over the years. The Voodoo Hoodoo curse to turn a man into a Loup Garou are said to be done to exact revenge on a family. Many Voodooist believe this creature will kill off it's family members one by one until they are the only survivers of the line. The Famous Marie Laveau was said to have freed a bayou woman of her curse in the 1870's. Many in New Orleans will tell the story of how she locked the woman up chained in a cemetery crypt for the three nights of the full moon. As many who practice the anciant arts of black magic in Louisiana will tell you a Loupe Garou can change shape at will. But during the nights and days of the full moon they are trapped in the shape of the creature unable to transform at will. Marie Laveau was said to have the power to shape shift herself. Also some say she is still alive and is a Loupe Garou. it is believed that a man's "inside" can take the form of a cat, dog, wild pig, ape, deer or other animal, and afterwards resume human form; it is termed Garouou. Now I know you say its possible that the arch in the image at the top of the clock represents part of the grounds of jackson square  but why not this? hxxp://www.magazineusa.com/images_st2/l ... trong1.jpg Also really the only thing leading you to jackson square is verse 7 , but really verse 7 looks like it fits better with montreal. yet the text of verse 2 has a definitive new orleans link. so as the case with the legeater , why not until proven otherwise go with the simplest solution. Image 7 - verse 2 - somewhere around armstrong park. What do you think?

I think it will take at least 2 of wilhouse's bulldozers to convince me that V2 is not the New Orleans verse. Here is a sovereign people / Who build palaces to shelter / Their heads for a night! is a direct reference to the people of New Orleans by a very impressed Domingo Sarmiento.

Sorry meant v2 not v3 in my above post. there fixed it...

while checking out the Loup Garou, [ i had never heard the word before, even the dozen times ive been to N O ] i found the image while looking for another legeater in quebec, and the story looking up the loup garou, just thought it odd, i cant read the inscription for the image quebec p-7 a sorta look alike hxxp://www.panoramio.com/photo/105984 story about loup garou in quebec hxxp://www.americanfolklore.net/folktales/quebec3.html

sorry i have forgotten who put up the straight line therory, if louis a pk in N O is right then this map shows from p hall to pk as a straight line to pk. i did not look at the p5-v12 idea on a map, but i know before they built, the cleveland clinic up for, i think 5 square blocks, st claire went to what use to be liberty blvd. hxxp://maps.google.com/maps?sourceid=na ... 1&ct=image

thats right  terminal tower in cleveland is on st claire which goes straight to the park and then liberty drive (as also shown in the pix) goes right to the Italian garden Preservation hall is straight down from louis armstrong park, (of course so is jackson square) but the arch in the image matches the entrance to armstrong park There is a big arm in the picture and the arm is either a loup garoux or a zombie, there is a famous zombie queens house across the street from the park. (both loup garoux and zombies are tied to voodoo.) and really the only reason to go to jackson square is verse 7 which might not apply here at all.

maltedfalcon wrote:: and really the only reason to go to jackson square is verse 7 which might not apply here at all. maltedfalcon wrote:: Preservation hall is straight down from louis armstrong park, (of course so is jackson square) That is so funny that you say this when only a few lines earlier you state: The layout of Jackson Square looks too similar to P7's clock to be merely coincidental.  The square itself looks like the clock face and the continued arch above the turquoise looks like the raised section across the street holding the Washington Artillery Cannon.  Now, if you start in the middle of Jackson square {P7 clock face}, walk across Decatur St to the Cannon {P7 arch above turquoise} and continue walking towards the Mississippi River...do you know what you will come to next?  Thats right...the Moon Walk {P7 above arch contains a lovely moon}. you also mentioned that both garoux & zombies are tied to voodoo and I find it hard to believe that you think this type of thing is strictly around Armstrong park.  This is N.O. we are talking about.  My family bought voodoo t-shirts in a very cool voodoo store just down the street from Jackson Sq.  Shops like this are EVERYWHERE around the French Quarter.

yes, i agree all of that is true, but the reason you go to jackson park is "At Stonewalls door take that verse away and your left with  the arch "The layout of Jackson Square looks too similar to P7's clock to be merely coincidental" I dissagree a square and an arch are pretty common. i.e the arch at armstrong park is the entrance to congo square... lastly you've been all over/around jackson square and come up empty -- but these are suggestions/ideas/ and Im not there you are, Im sure you have a much better feel of the city and the possibilities.  I would love for you to find a caque, using any verse you can.

maltedfalcon wrote:: yes, i agree all of that is true, but the reason you go to jackson park is "At Stonewalls door take that verse away and your left with  the arch Near by the air smells sweet              Cafe Du Monde "The layout of Jackson Square looks too similar to P7's clock to be merely coincidental" I dissagree a square and an arch are pretty common. i.e the arch at armstrong park is the entrance to congo square... lastly you've been all over/around jackson square and come up empty -- See Liberty Place - it had a Giant Pole but these are suggestions/ideas/ and Im not there you are, Im sure you have a much better feel of the city and the possibilities.  I would love for you to find a caque, using any verse you can.

So are you saying the caque should have been next to the giant pole at liberty place in the direction of missisippi? Has anyone dug there? that should resolve the possibility pretty quickly. and if it is not there and/or it is an innaccessible place to dig. lets try our best alternate solutions. Im leaning toward under the hanging tree near congo square. I know there are at least two statues of jazz players right there Armstong and another I forget the name my guess there is one more that would be 3 stand watch. in the middle of 21 Is most likely someting like this... hxxp://louisdl.louislibraries.org/cdm4/ ... X=1&REC=10 we know 10X13 was trees...

i think digging for the casque could be a problem, anytime soon who knows maybe the folks working on the park and other parks may find it anyone with good conections with the city hxxp://www.wwltv.com/topstories/stories ... 33a39.html

anyone with good conections with the city scratch that please after looking for pics of L A PK ,they have enough problems with out us, butting in for a t hunt i came across this on flickr, this women has recorded  the history in NO in pics the katrinia and gustov pics, so so sad, all the help that has gone there, and still going there seems to be just not enough hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/neworleanslady/ hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/neworleans ... llections/

This is Congo Square now. The photo you posted was taken decades ago. Congo square is just an open space where bands and dancers used to gather. Louis Armstrong Park was largely flooded during Katrina. We have been over and over and over this location--and nothing was concluded or found. Yes, there are multiple images that match places in LA park. The bridge over the river that runs through the park is reflected in the arches--the statue of LA himself--the entryway. We have posted pic after pic of this park, and been over it multiple times. Not trying to discourage anyone, but it's been hashed, and REhashed. Did no one see my bit on an earlier post about the "giant pole"? They erect a giant pole in Jackson Square every New Year's Eve and a large pot of gumbo descends at the stroke of midnight--like the ball in Times Square.  Maybe THAT's the pole BP was talking about.

Yes I understand what it looks like now. I read the date on the picture, I was suggesting a possible translation of middle of 21. The difference I am trying to apply the iconic image -straight line theory. and then using that theory. pick the most likely verse- So Montreal -Image 9 verse 7 Image 7 Verse 2 and knowing how much effort has been put into jackson square without results I thought I would look in the other direction. and the more I look the more I like LA park I do realize its been hashed and rehashed and Im sure we will rehash it again and again til someone goes 'hey" and has a lightbulb moment. and I did see your giant new years eve pole, but after trying all kinds of poles with verse 7 and SF I realized something about the giant pole, and that is whatever pole it is and what ever place it is, there needs to be diggable dirt within one giant step (in the Twain attention direction)  a pole in the middle of a park, a flagpole in the middle of cement or a monment in the middle of a busy city square isnt going to work...    diggable means that BP with a shovel in the middle of the night, is not going to attract undue attention. and While there are several places like that in LA park, there really arent around jackson park... But even still I would love to see how verse 2 works with jackson square... remember occam's razor, the simplest solution probably is correct. and we already have a verse - verse2 with a definite NO connection.

What is the definite connection?

maltedfalcon wrote:: "The layout of Jackson Square looks too similar to P7's clock to be merely coincidental" I dissagree a square and an arch are pretty common. Those become less and less common when above said arch is the Moonwalk just like P7 shows the moon above the arch...and...with Peter Pan circling the interior of the clock with the second hand pointing towards the right side of the clock which corresponds to St Peter Street running down that side of Jackson Sq. Now if you can show me that Armstrong Park is shaped....no....'looks' like the face of a clock and that the street running outside of the park where the arched entrance is is called Moon Street you might be onto something I still believe that the casque is not buried within Jackson Sq itself but in one of the grassy areas between the cannon and the Moonwalk.  There are a couple of areas right below the cannon that would be ideal since they are basically hidden from all of the traffic {foot and vehicle} along Decatur St outside of J Square.

When referring to a "giant pole," I would think that BP would be referring to something that can always be seen, and not something that appears only once per year, and you have to read about it to know that it WAS there.  So, the temporary pole in Jackson Square just does not seem to fit. As for the "giant step," it may not necessarily mean that the treasure is a large stride away from the giant pole.  It could be a play on words, such as a sign referring to a moonwalk or maybe a statue of a giant, etc., which could be several yards away from the pole.

Unknown: When referring to a "giant pole," I would think that BP would be referring to something that can always be seen, and not something that appears only once per year, and you have to read about it to know that it WAS there.  So, the temporary pole in Jackson Square just does not seem to fit. I doubt that's the case, actually---he has mentioned quite a few things that aren't "seen" or can't "always be seen" in these verses. The historical references are a big factor. May 1913 and Edwin and Edwina and even the Education and Justice references in this verse--the buildings aren't used NOW for education and justice--they WERE  used for that purpose. And as for having to read about it, well, we've had to read about EVERYTHING. So this argument doesn't really sway me much. Nor does the casque have to buried within sight of any pole. The pole is mentioned only--it does not mention that the casque is at its foot like it does in other verses. It said in the Cleveland verse, seek the columns for the search , but the casque wasn't buried at the foot of the columns. The columns were merely another item in the vicinity. It's obvious to me (and maybe just me) that the verses are probably supposed to be much simpler as locators than we are using them. We're splitting a lot of hairs, here. BP had said that he expected the treasures to all be located within a short period of time--so I don't believe he made these all that complicated. The pole at NYears in NOLA gets a lot of attention there--if you said to a native "giant pole" he or she might possibly say right back to you, "New Year's! Big pot o'gumbo!" in the same way that if you said to a native New Yorker "Time's Square" they would probably fire back "New Year's! Big ball dropping!" 1 I think the giant step is another of these sorts of clues. I don't think he means literally move your leg away from your body about 6 feet.  I think he means "a league." Remember these are fairy tales--what was a giant step in a fairy tale? A league . (Remember  the 7-league boots?) There is probably something with the word "league" on it nearby. I'd be looking for that, not a pole--OR a straight line. And that brings up another thing: the figure called "Peter Pan." That is absolutely NOT Peter Pan.  It's not the Disney version and it's not the literature version either (who looked like a baby). It looks like an old fashioned baseball player--or it might be a harlequin (but that's even a stretch for me.) So maybe you'd look for a league as it pertains to baseball? 1 Of course some New Yorkers might fire back something like "Porn Shops!" instead.

shecrab wrote:: I doubt that's the case, actually---he has mentioned quite a few things that aren't "seen" or can't "always be seen" in these verses. The historical references are a big factor. May 1913 and Edwin and Edwina and even the Education and Justice references in this verse--the buildings aren't used NOW for education and justice--they WERE  used for that purpose. And as for having to read about it, well, we've had to read about EVERYTHING. So this argument doesn't really sway me much. Nor does the casque have to buried within sight of any pole. The pole is mentioned only--it does not mention that the casque is at its foot like it does in other verses. It said in the Cleveland verse, seek the columns for the search , but the casque wasn't buried at the foot of the columns. The columns were merely another item in the vicinity. Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! Quote from Domingo Sarmiento referring to the St. Charles Exchange hotel in New Orleans. To me that directly connects this verse to NO and eliminates it from consideration in any other city. You mentioned historical references... I suspect that when all plays out the historical references will have a physical manifestation near the casque, ie. a hisorical marker with the date may 1913 or mention Edwin sombody and his decendants...  For instance Education and justice for all to see... In montreal the statue with the angel on top of it is dedicated to a man, whom the marker notes was famous for bringing education and justice to the area.... Actually it said first seek the columns as in the first place to go is the columns at the entrance to the italian gardens. Then it took you step by step. to a specific place. narrowing down the area until the area to dig in was obvious and confined. My point with verse 7 is for it to narrow down to a diggable area. the casque must be  1 giant step from a pole in a specific direction. otherwise the search area is too vague and the casque couldnt be found.  7 leagues is about 21 miles by the way. I should also point out there is no way of knowing if the gumbo pole was put up in the exact same place year after year. which would make a big difference to a digger. But still my main question is why choose v7 over v2 when v2 has the above solid, historical,  literature link.

maltedfalcon wrote:: Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! Quote from Domingo Sarmiento referring to the St. Charles Exchange hotel in New Orleans. To me that directly connects this verse to NO and eliminates it from consideration in any other city. maltedfalcon wrote:: But still my main question is why choose v7 over v2 when v2 has the above solid, historical,  literature link. Where did you find this gem?  Even after you told me WHO said it and WHAT it was referring to, I still can not find any mention of Senor S making this statement referring to the SCEH...or for that matter, even something remotely similar ie...the tweaked version of the Wright Memorial saying. because everything else fits...

Fox...we had a whole thread on here about it. Literary References in the Secret is the thread title. There's an image from the book Abroad in America with the Sarmiento quote on that thread.

fox wrote:: because everything else fits... But it also fit San Francisco and now it also fits Montreal,  Kind of a generic verse so to speak.... it seems it's easy to make that one fit anywhere. so that it "Fits" in New Orleans, isnt actually a great reason... If it really really fit, you would have a casque or at least a pinpointed location... but here in v2 you have a definite link to Link to New Orleans....

Yes, I see that now falcon.

In addition to the clock looking like Jackson Square, I am hoping someone can do some closeup magic and show the hands of the clock.  You will see a JS hidden in there. There are also parts of the circle around the clock that are shaded.  They must mean something - either a location or some type of encoded word or numbers.  Hmmm.

Call me crazy, but all I can think about when I look at the clock is bicycles. Old ones. The large circle looks like a bicycle wheel with the part of the frame that connects to the hub. The hands of the clock resemble a stylized reflected bicycle, complete with handlebars. The fellow (who is NOT Peter Pan -- sorry, no resemblance at all) looks like he is wearing sensible cycling clothes, with pants tucked into his socks like these fine gentlemen...

Re: image 7 « Reply #417 on: Today at 01:11:52 am » i think of the guy on the clock and think of this hxxp://www.golfknickers.com/ and speaking of the clock, i found this and a pole Perseverance Hall hxxp://crm.cr.nps.gov/archive/24-02/24-02-12.pdf scroll down click on pics hxxp://www.crt.state.la.us/hp/nhl/searc ... pageno=891 i think its a giant pole in pic on the left, no idea where in new o has an option for larger view hxxp://monster-island.org/gallery/v/new ... 4.jpg.html

That looks like a cell phone tower, which would not have been in place in 1981

cw0909 wrote:: and speaking of the clock, i found this and a pole Perseverance Hall hxxp://crm.cr.nps.gov/archive/24-02/24-02-12.pdf Yes, but Perseverance and Preservation are two different things...

fox wrote:: Yes, but Perseverance and Preservation are two different things...   :-\ i i know was trying to find something else besides louis A, to put us in that park just throwing it out there

forest_blight wrote:: Call me crazy, but all I can think about when I look at the clock is bicycles. Old ones. The large circle looks like a bicycle wheel with the part of the frame that connects to the hub. The hands of the clock resemble a stylized reflected bicycle, complete with handlebars. The fellow (who is NOT Peter Pan -- sorry, no resemblance at all) looks like he is wearing sensible cycling clothes, with pants tucked into his socks like these fine gentlemen... FB's pic above cuts off the top part of the S in JS.  Does anyone else see the JS?

Egbert wrote:: FB's pic above cuts off the top part of the S in JS.  Does anyone else see the JS? Egbert, maybe this JS in yellow -mirrored in red- is what are you looking for...

I do see how one could extract letters from it, egbert, but those letters could also be O, 0, 8, C... in short, a lot of things. If you try hard enough, you can even read the word "voodoo" there. This is one of the things I see: Now tell me that doesn't look like a bike! Assuming for the moment that it could be a bicycle, how could that help narrow down a location in New Orleans? Near a bike path perhaps? A bicycle repair store? Any famous bicycle connections in New Orleans?

Re: image 7 « Reply #424 on: Today at 03:46:11 pm » Now tell me that doesn't look like a bike! Assuming for the moment that it could be a bicycle, how could that help narrow down a location in New Orleans? Near a bike path perhaps? A bicycle repair store? Any famous bicycle connections in New Orleans? while lookig around photos, and other stuff looking for a way, to connect that clock, near lL.A. pk i saw a lot of wrought iron, on homes as rails and as fence, and what your saying look like bike wheels, ive seen the same circle in the wrought iron. they have a famous hotel there that is called the cornstalk hotel because of the cornstalk fence, maybe bp is just trying to confirm the area, with the wrought iron look of the hands then you could be right maybe a bike shop, or something near and the bike, is made of wrought iron hxxp://www.jankaulins.com/p191.html

I think it may also be something that Palencar put in there to be reflective of his initials. You can very clearly see two J's--John Jude--and the P also. I know he signed the painting, but this is pretty common with artists. Al Hirschfeld the caricature artist always hid his daughter Nina's name in his drawings, then put a little number down by his signature, telling you how many times Nina appeared.  From Wiki: Hirschfeld is known for hiding the name of his daughter, Nina, in most of the drawings he produced since her birth in 1945. The name would appear in a sleeve, in a hairdo, or somewhere in the background. Sometimes "NINA" would show up more than once and Hirschfeld would helpfully add a number next to his signature, to let people know how many times her name would appear. Hirschfeld originally intended the NINA gag to be a one-time gimmick but it soon spiraled out of control. Though the NINAs were a popular feature in his cartoons, with many enjoying the game of searching for them, on more than one occasion Hirschfeld would lament that the gimmick had overshadowed his art. On occasion he did try to discontinue the practice, but such attempts always generated harsh criticism. Nina herself was reportedly somewhat ambivalent about all the attention. In the previously mentioned interview with The Comics Journal Hirschfeld confirmed the urban legend that the US Army had used his cartoons to train bomber pilots with the soldiers trying to spot the NINAs much as they would spot their targets. Hirschfeld told the magazine he found the idea repulsive, saying that he felt his cartoons were being used to help kill people. In his 1966 anthology The World of Hirschfeld he included a drawing of Nina which he titled "Nina's Revenge." This drawing contained no NINAs. There were, however, two ALs and two DOLLYs, "The names of her wayward parents."

Good observation about the possible "JJP." A final observation: The top of the clock hand looks somewhat like an anchor. Squint and you'll see it.

The antique cyclist on the clock face looks like he would have been a shop sign, hanging over an antique store...like a "shingle" out over the sidewalk. Royal Street is an antique mecca in New Orleans... It is between Jackson Square and Louis Armstrong park. This was taken on 710 Royal Street, New Orleans. There is an annual Antique Bicycle festival held in the New Orleans area.

That particular type of bicycle is called a Penny-Farthing if that helps any.  I haven't been able to link it to anything in NO but it might indeed be a sign or something

forest_blight wrote:: Now tell me that doesn't look like a bike! Does it have to be a bike?  These things are ALWAYS present at Jackson Sq

Hmm, yes, that's certainly true. Were they around in 1981 or is it a recent thing?

Looking more closely at the man on the clock face... At first I thought he had on Argyle socks...but then it struck me that he may be the character Harlequin, (a popular New Orleans character at Mardi Gras) Notice the "ballet slippers they each wear...and the cap.

There is no question in my mind that he is a harlequin, I've said it before but it the group consensus was baseball player or peter pan, neither of which fits. interesting to note in the area where the streets are named after jewels., there is a harlequin park....

We decided a long time ago that the figure was a harlequin. Back somewhere in this thread. I also at one time thought it was an old-fashioned baseball player. But that was when I was thinking this pic might actually be the St. Louis location. (St. Louis has a reputation for hosting vintage baseball teams and games--they're quite well known for it.) Those carriages have been around for a long time--I believe they were indeed there in 1981. Harlequin Park is almost empty of features. There is pretty much nothing there that would be a marker or landmark or any sort of identifyer to hide the casque.

By the way, the top of that clock hand does INDEED look like an anchor. And underneath it, between the J's it looks like an 8. So when you put these together you get anchorate ---which is word that means "anchor shaped." Interesting--the only "anchor-shaped' things I know of in NOLA is the park where the Mardi Gras Krewes are honored. It's right on the shore of L. Ponchartrain north of the Jewel Neighborhood.....hmmm......

Both parks in the neighborhood are almost featureless now What were they like in 1981 and multiple hurricanes ago... anyway, there is featureless and featureless. 15 rows down to the ground. sounds like steps or stripes.  although in cleveland when he meant steps he said steps... perhaps something like painted stripes on a seawall or levy  or ridges of cement.... In the middle of 21 could be something as simple as light posts on the highway or 21 no parking signs... 3 stand watch is going to be the final spot. I see this as near 15 rows of something (flowers, paint, lines on a wall) next the the 11th thing in a row of 21 things. in the middle of three identical things. dig. altogether possible for the area around harlequin park or even right along the water north of the park.

Malted, Once again we could use some "historic" photos to help us see the area in question, 26 years earlier.... AP

maltedfalcon wrote:: There is no question in my mind that he is a harlequin, I've said it before but it the group consensus was baseball player or peter pan, neither of which fits. It could be as simple as a baseball playing Peter Pan dressed as a harlequin for halloween...has anybody thought of that?

eljayo wrote:: Egbert, maybe this JS in yellow -mirrored in red- is what are you looking for... Yes, that's the JS I am talking about, for Jackson Square.  I see how it could also be a bicycle, but it would be a distorted one, which doesn't seem to fit with hidden drawings in the other Images.  Also, JJP did not hide his initials in any other Image, so I doubt it could be that either. As for our little man, he certainly looks more like an old-time baseball player or bicycle rider than a harlequin, since a harlequin has colorful outfits with elaborate designs on them.  The upper part of his outfit does not appear to have any design on it.  That's too bad, because I do like the Harlequin Park idea.  Hmmm.

maltedfalcon wrote:: There is no question in my mind that he is a harlequin fox wrote:: It could be as simple as a baseball playing Peter Pan dressed as a harlequin for halloween...has anybody thought of that? I agree with egbert - the only thing harlequinny about our guy is the design on his socks. From the butt up, I'm just not seeing it. And did anyone notice that huge tumor on his rear end? And the fact that one of his socks goes all the way up but the other one stops at the knee? Of course!! There's a statue of one of those in downtown Salt Lake City, next to the white stone fountain at the Ponce de Leon racing track!

forest_blight wrote:: And did anyone notice that huge tumor on his rear end? And the fact that one of his socks goes all the way up but the other one stops at the knee? Nice observation MF!  Now that I look at it more closely, there is definitely something weird with the right leg and that "tumor," almost as if that part of the man is not attached to the rest of the body.  I think what this could be is a hidden image taken from the treasure site, but blended into the man's pic.  In other words, part of the man could be seen from the treasure site, such as the leg and "tumor" (maybe a sign from a sock shop or a harlequin store?). There appear to be a ton of clues in this clock, from the shaded dashes around the face, to hidden message(s) in the hands of the clock, to the pieces of our little man.

Speaking of clocks.... This was from earlier in this thread. It's the Hotel Monteleone, at the corner of Royal and Iberville Sts. Note the CLOCK FACE---the arch above the face, and the ornate hands. Why was this forgotten? This hotel could be very significant. Also---it was founded by a Sicilian immigrant--wasn't Sarmiento a Sicilian--or at least Italian? There is a Carousel bar in the lobby--that revolves every 10 minutes. Maybe our little fellow on the clock face is the harlequin (or the jockey!) from that carousel?

Many, perhaps most, grandfather clocks have an arch over the clock face - search Google image and you'll see. Also, this particular clock has Arabic numerals, not Roman numerals. Sarmiento was from Argentina.

maybe its simpler than that, maybe the clock hands pointing up simply mean up or north the northern part of new orleans... Like the area where all the streets are named after jewels

I'm sure that someone has mentioned the numbers in the corners of the clock face...19...29...and has made some sense of them....right?? AP

Latitude and longitude. The 19 is there merely to make it look like a date. The numbers for NOLA are 29 and 90.

shecrab wrote:: Speaking of clocks.... This was from earlier in this thread. It's the Hotel Monteleone, at the corner of Royal and Iberville Sts. Note the CLOCK FACE---the arch above the face, and the ornate hands. Why was this forgotten? This hotel could be very significant. Also---it was founded by a Sicilian immigrant--wasn't Sarmiento a Sicilian--or at least Italian? There is a Carousel bar in the lobby--that revolves every 10 minutes. Maybe our little fellow on the clock face is the harlequin (or the jockey!) from that carousel? Thanks CK for bringing back an old discovery of mine. I thought it was an interesting find.

Me too. Did anyone ever go explore this area of town? I know Lafitte just joined right about the time this was put on the thread.

I interpret the 19 as a backwards 91 (bounding longitude for New Orleans). They pulled the same trick in P4.

I think I know what's coming, post-wise....someone is about to bring up New Orleans city Park as a possible casque site. Well, before you do, please view the pics and the report at the following link: hxxp://neworleanscitypark.com/katrina.html This explains in vivid pictures the kind of damage that was done by Katrina. If there was a casque buried in that park, it will likely never be recovered. Parts of this park were under 10 feet of water for weeks. This would include Ted Gormley stadium, which has been suggested as a place where "end to end" might be pertinent. There is a particularly good picture of that stadium on the link above, full of water up to the horizontal bars on the goalposts. Also, the levees in the neighborhood don't have "rows" of anything. They aren't brick walls, but sloped earth banks.

Shecrab, I'm not sure what your suggesting. So the entire area of city park was underwater and parts of it have been remodeled. Are you suggesting we all just give up on New Orleans? If it is located in City park, why not keep working at the solution until we have a best guess or most likely possibility? The area where I am suggesting near harlequin park, was also flooded and is undoubtedly different then it was in 1981. Its been almost 3 decades, Things have changed dramatically, so what, that just makes it more challenging. Lastly some thoughts about levys I work in Sacramento, CA, a city surrounded by levys. Your comment about Levys indicates an unfamiliarity with them. Where the roads pass through levys there are indeed walls, gates, made of brick, cinderblock and cement. These can be painted or decorated. There is such a gate in the levy due east from harlequin park, Im sure there are more.. Also notice there is a road on the outside of the levy and houses on the inside. Quite often people whose house face the blank wall of a levy tend to go out and decorate the levy with stones, plants etc. this is frowned upon, and probably illegal but still done. While the levys look featureless today, what did they look like in 1981? some levys are terraced in small increments , what might look like a smooth slope from above could look like 15 levels when viewed from below. Also the levy along crystal st is topped by a wall.

maltedfalcon wrote:: So the entire area of city park was underwater and parts of it have been remodeled. Are you suggesting we all just give up on New Orleans? If it is located in City park, why not keep working at the solution until we have a best guess or most likely possibility? I have to agree with MF here.  Katrina was 5 years ago...City Park, as well as most of N.O., does not look anything like the picture you linked to.  I was there...I strolled through the park & it is beautiful...I think, if City Park is the resting place, I may have dug right around where it may have been.  I will try my best to get a link up and running by tonight of my City Park pics as well as my Jackson Sq pics.

Ok, we have a clock face with a guy that appears to be traveling/flying around it.  What if the guy isnt "supposed" to be a harlequin, or a jockey, or a baseball player, or a bicyclist, or even Peter Pan?  What if the guy is just that...?...a guy.  Or better yet, a boy?  We have a boy going around a clock.  That boy has to be someone's son...so now we have a son going around a time piece.  hmmm, a sun going around a time piece...sounds like a sundial to me.  The second hand on our clock could be the extended arm of the sundial in City Park.  And believe it or not, as will be shown in the pics I hope to get up tonight....at the sundial site:  there is only 1 small post adjacent to the sundial and it is in the same relationship as the boy is to the clock's second hand.  It is not seen in this photo of the sundial I found online... Matching up some of the rest of the V may be another question though...

Take a really close look at the harlequin... It is not that he has a disfigured derriere, It is that he is carrying something under his arm. Whatever it is, has a notch cut out of it.

or there is something on the face of the clock right behind him.

Unknown: Shecrab, I'm not sure what your suggesting. So the entire area of city park was underwater and parts of it have been remodeled. Are you suggesting we all just give up on New Orleans? If it is located in City park, why not keep working at the solution until we have a best guess or most likely possibility? Unknown: The area where I am suggesting near harlequin park, was also flooded and is undoubtedly different then it was in 1981. Unknown: Its been almost 3 decades, Things have changed dramatically, so what, that just makes it more challenging. Unknown: Lastly some thoughts about levys I work in Sacramento, CA, a city surrounded by levys. Your comment about Levys indicates an unfamiliarity with them. Why is this so difficult to understand? The park was under TEN FEET OF WATER. Do you really honestly think that the casque would survive that? They were only buried 3 feet down!! Have some common sense, here, guys. I know the park doesn't look like that now--for cryin' out loud!  I was trying to show you how DEEP the water was by the pictures. That kind of water would have seriously affected the ground it stood on for that many weeks. I know the  park has been remodeled. But that is also a point here--do you think they just pulled a plug and let the water out like in a bathtub? No--the ground was littered with gunk, which had to be removed with trucks and shovels and backhoes. I've seen video of the clean up there. They didn't just sweep up afterwards or use a shop vac. If the casque was in City Park, it's probably UNRECOVERABLE. That's what I was saying. Plain and simple. If you go back through this thread alone--and verse 2's--you will see that all of this has been suggested over and over again. It has come to nothing every single time. Katrina probably made the New Orleans find a scant possibility--and that's only if it was buried someplace other than next to a damned levee! Am I saying give up? No . I'm saying that the logical step from Harlequin park (which has NOTHING IN IT except a few trees!) is City Park--because it's a mere few blocks away from Harlequin park. But if that's where you want to go, then you're probably never going to find a casque. What area is this? You haven't suggested an area. Unless I really missed something here--?? Well, duh.... No kidding. That was sorta my point. No, I am NOT unfamiliar with LEVEES...(not LEVYs.) And I've seen the ones near Lakeshore in NOLA. They aren't walls. They're earth banks. They are different in Sacramento. (I've been there too.) Check this out: That third picture is east of Harlequin park...where is the levee or the wall? (or did you mean west?) in fact, I don't see any walls anywhere. Perhaps you can explain? They looked like this in 1981 too. in fact, one of the reasons this area flooded is because they look like this and don't have walls on top of them. They're smooth earth banks and have been for many decades. There was plenty of news footage of people sandbagging the tops of them.  You can get very close in Google Earth and you can see that there is nothing on top, no "levels" no terraces, no brick walls, no blocks--no nothin'. You can also get close enough to see that Harlequin park has no features in it that could be used as a marker to hide a casque--our verse doesn't say anything about "in the middle of flat ground with a few trees." It says "in the middle of twenty-one." You can get right down on the street view in GE and see what's there--and it's like a big empty backyard for the houses that surround it. I'm just being realistic.

shecrab, I think I'm a lot more optimistic about what happens to things buried 3 ft. underground under flood conditions. I understand that it isn't like filling and draining a bath tub. But even if a lot of flotsam accumulates... when they truck it away, surely they would scrape only down to the original ground level and not significantly (3 ft.!) deeper. Sure, NOLA's original ground level probably fluctuates a few inches either way (relative to 1981) in many places that have since been cleared of storm debris, and I'm sure there are some parts of town where significant accumulation of silt and muck occurred, but it's not accumulation we have to worry about so much as erosion , and I am not clear on the extent to which the soil in New Orleans was eroded way by Katrina. Surely not 3 ft. That said, I just recalled that caskets not covered by concrete tend to pop out of the ground and float down the street during floods in New Orleans, and they're buried 6 ft.! Hmm.

FB--they don't bury people in New Orleans; the caskets are all above ground.

...because, if they weren't, they would, er... self-disinter, right? Maybe our NOLA casque is floating in an eddy somewhere in Lake Pontchartrain...!

animal painter wrote:: Take a really close look at the harlequin... It is not that he has a disfigured derriere, It is that he is carrying something under his arm. Whatever it is, has a notch cut out of it. Still trying to understand why the artist drew this shape that harlequin is carrying. Could it be a recognizable silhouette of a landmark, or could it be the outline of a park area?  The artist is "all about detail" in his paintings...and this is a deliberate drawing of a detail...not just a misshaped butt.

I suppose it could be a "2" along with the sleeve's "1," but that's a stretch.

forest_blight wrote:: ...because, if they weren't, they would, er... self-disinter, right? Maybe our NOLA casque is floating in an eddy somewhere in Lake Pontchartrain...! Er.... ?

FB, caskets tend actually to be full of air, (or gas,) they tend to be very very bouyant, they usually are air tight and sealed, so that if buried in ground that tends toward liquifaction they will migrate upwards. It also happens during earthquakes out here in Calfornia, not just during floods.. The casque on the other hand was a porcelein container containing a key, in a plexiglass box. Moisture from rain/flooding would eventually fill the box and casque with water. We have seen from Cleveland that any casque buried where it freezes will probably be crushed by the freeze thaw cycle. This would be especially true of any casque buried within 2 feet of the surface. In an area that doesnt freeze, it should fair better.  although what 27+ years of immersion in water does to cold cast porcelain, I dont know. but actually in an area like New Orleans, if the casque moved at all it would probably sink however this is unlikely as the undisturbed earth beneath the casque would be denser then the earth it is buried in.

This is the kind of thing I was referring to, shecrab: "Dozens of caskets that surfaced from grave sites sit along a fence line at the Hollywood Community Cemetary, Sunday, Sept. 14, 2008, in Orange, Texas. Dozens of caskets floated to the surface due to the flood waters caused by Hurricane Ike."  --The News

forest_blight wrote:: This is the kind of thing I was referring to, shecrab: "Dozens of caskets that surfaced from grave sites sit along a fence line at the Hollywood Community Cemetary, Sunday, Sept. 14, 2008, in Orange, Texas. Dozens of caskets floated to the surface due to the flood waters caused by Hurricane Ike."  --The News Unknown: The casque on the other hand was a porcelein container containing a key, in a plexiglass box. Oh I understood exactly what you meant--but this didn't happen in New Orleans, since all the crypts are above-ground. The cemetaries sustained water damage (and I'm sure quite a few of the crypts leaked), but not like what happened in Texas. They plant 'em there. They don't in NO. No, the casque itself is just ceramic--and very porous. Not porcelain.  The key was also ceramic. And in a plexiglas box, yes--which is easily shattered, crushed, broken. As the Cleveland box was--as the Cleveland casque also was. Basically, you have a flower-pot type of ceramic box inside a box made of brittle plastic. I honestly don't think it survived Katrina, unless it was in some extremely sheltered place that didn't flood.

who knows, maybe bp did a little research on caskets and the problems of this area and decided our casque should somehow be above ground as well.  .    .

shecrab wrote:: No, the casque itself is just ceramic--and very porous. Not porcelain. Cold cast porcelain is a type of ceramic. my assumption is the casque is made up of cold cast porcelain because it was cast rather then sculpted, and cold cast porcelain is the easiest cheapest method to do that. The differnce being a small amount of resin is mixed with ceramic base, this makes it easy to mold, and dries without being fired.  Also the casques we'ent fully decorated making me wonder if they were kiln fired or just baked dry.

fox wrote:: who knows, maybe bp did a little research on caskets and the problems of this area and decided our casque should somehow be above ground as well.  .    . ...except that BP specifically wrote that all 12 casques were buried underground. The only way one of them could be above ground is if we put it there!

remember he expected them to be found almost immediately...

I know you guys want to say that the "harlequin" takes us to Harlequin Park, but everything I read and saw on the internet convinces me that the little man on the clock is just NOT a harlequin.  He is not dressed like a harlequin. AP pointed out that the man may be carrying something under his arm.  That is an interesting way to look at it, since there is a definite line connecting his left hand to his leg.  But, he may not be carrying anything --- it could be just the line that makes it look like that.  I am not sure.  If he is carrying something, then it is covering part of his back, in order to make his leg look strange like that.  This is a definite clue, but it is very difficult to figure out. I don't know if it means anything, but he is actually completing the circle on the clock.

I know you guys want to say that the "harlequin" takes us to Harlequin Park, but everything I read and saw on the internet convinces me that the little man on the clock is just NOT a harlequin.  He is not dressed like a harlequin. AP pointed out that the man may be carrying something under his arm.  That is an interesting way to look at it, since there is a definite line connecting his left hand to his leg.  But, he may not be carrying anything --- it could be just the line that makes it look like that.  I am not sure.  If he is carrying something, then it is covering part of his back, in order to make his leg look strange like that.  This is a definite clue, but it is very difficult to figure out. I don't know if it means anything, but he is actually completing the circle on the clock.

forest_blight wrote:: ...except that BP specifically wrote that all 12 casques were buried underground. The only way one of them could be above ground is if we put it there! Sir Eg, wasn't the Cleveland casque buried in a plot "above" the ground? Seven steps up you can hop From the bottom level

when you say he's not dressed like a harlequin. Im not sure what you mean. he has the slippers, the stockings which are of harlequin design one stocking is higher then the other. the upper part of the costume is a bib and bow tie the arms are baggy and go to cuffs and he is wearing a cap. all of which are ok as part of a harlequin or clown costume, Harlequins and clowns are closely associated. I think your mistaken in thinking there is a specific exact description of a harlequin. I have seen harlequins wearing many types of coats, vests and jackets. Harlequins can wear jesters caps, pointy caps, slouch caps or no cap at all the entire outifit does not need to be in harlequin diamonds, The diamond pattern on the leggings is probably enough to classify him as a harlequin. and no I dont suggest it takes us to harlequin park, but I do suggest it confirms the jewel street neighborhood.  I actually think most likely along a levee rather then in harlequin park. you are right the circle is not where the harlequin(or not harlequin ) is.

when you say he's not dressed like a harlequin. Im not sure what you mean. he has the slippers, the stockings which are of harlequin design one stocking is higher then the other. the upper part of the costume is a bib and bow tie the arms are baggy and go to cuffs and he is wearing a cap. all of which are ok as part of a harlequin or clown costume, Harlequins and clowns are closely associated. I think your mistaken in thinking there is a specific exact description of a harlequin. I have seen harlequins wearing many types of coats, vests and jackets. Harlequins can wear jesters caps, pointy caps, slouch caps or no cap at all the entire outifit does not need to be in harlequin diamonds, The diamond pattern on the leggings is probably enough to classify him as a harlequin. and no I dont suggest it takes us to harlequin park, but I do suggest it confirms the jewel street neighborhood.  I actually think most likely along a levee rather then in harlequin park. you are right the circle is not where the harlequin(or not harlequin ) is.

Malted, Excellent job in describing the various features that may be considered 'harlequin". I think this one is very similar to our "flying man".  It is a famous French dancer from 1919. I am not tied to the Harlequin park specifically , either, but it does anchor us to that area. AP

cinderella's pumpkin carriage has spokes like a bike: hxxp://flickr.com/photos/gjcharlet/506920020/ and she just used it for a "night" liked this mural of cinderella's carriage: hxxp://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... l%26sa%3DN

Looking at the lower right area of Image 7, the checkered area seems to "bump out" forming the shape of a shield, with the "wolf/dragon" head almost in the center...Reminds me of a knight's shield.  The red checkered shield sometimes represents "The Order of the Checkered Shield" in honor the goddess of war, Larani. I have not been able to do much in the way of heraldry research. AP

I do not see how the upper part of the man is anything like a harlequin - the pic posted by AP does not really have a good view of the front of the shirt --- but I will drop the harlequin argument for now.  We still need to figure out the leg/sack/tumor clue, though. As for the grids on the wall, I do not recall if it has been mentioned before, but I always thought that the grids were an overview of a map of the city.  The grids that are diagonal are simply where diagonal streets are.  The pic of the wolf/horse could be a reference to something in that actual grid (Wolf Park, a stable or racetrack (Trohn should be happy about that suggestion), etc.).  We just have to line up the grid in Image 7 with the New Orleans grid, which I have not been able to do.

Dare I say it yes I must... It kind of looks like an aerial view of a levee....

hxxp://www.neworleansmasks.com/about.shtml This is a link to a store that has a harlequin sign out front, but if you read the website, you will see that it has changed its name over the years, and perhaps changed the sign outside as well.

About Harlequins: Harlequins originate from the Italian Commedia dell'arte, the ancient plays of ribald comedy and tragedy that were very popular centuries ago.  The word "harlegquin" comes from the Italian word arlechino.  Now why am I bringing this up? Well, remember the clock I posted the picture of earlier in the thread? at the Hotel Monteleone?  That hotel was founded by an Italian immigrant. What I'm saying here is that there appears to be a connection to the Italian--and it's interesting that the Harlequin is featured on a clock face that is similar to the one in the Italian hotel. As for their costumes, the little guy on the clock is dressed quite appropriately for a harlequin. They didn't all have "jester" style hats, or wear costumes completely covered in diamond patterns. Earlier harlequins were pretty much dressed like that little figure. I do not believe he is carrying anything under his arm, though. I think the legs and buttocks are simply "stylized" to make it look a little more old-fashioned. That type of figure is quite common in Palencar's paintings--look at the little dangling image in P. 3--I think it's just artistic license. Also, his one leg is darker--because it's in shadow . Not because he has one long sock and one short one. So if you wish to view this as a harlequin, then it is entirely appropriate to do so. It may not look as familiar as some of them you've seen, but it IS within the range that I have seen, without doubt. here is some info about Harlequins in history: hxxp://www.davidclaudon.com/arte/commedia2.html

This is what I'm talking about- above the ground.

hxxp://www.fidnet.com/~debbil/TheSecret.html I just posted the top 2 pics. This is Popp Fountain in City Park. It looks a lot like the clock face with 3 entrances (possibly being the gray marks on the rim of the clock face). I did a search and didn't see where this was brought up before.

xlurker wrote:: hxxp://www.fidnet.com/~debbil/TheSecret.html I just posted the top 2 pics. This is Popp Fountain in City Park. It looks a lot like the clock face with 3 entrances (possibly being the gray marks on the rim of the clock face). I did a search and didn't see where this was brought up before. i think their are whales in the st lawreance but farther up the river, who knows whales swim where they want

Those are older pics for image 9... i was just talking about the top 2 for this image. Guess i should seperate them.

at this link the pattern around the cover, looks sorta like the part where it is folding or bending near the creatur hxxp://users.rcn.com/fgardino/NewOrleans1.htm

The arms are reversed but I think this is it... not sure if image is showing so... go to hxxp://www.travelphotobase.com/s/LANBL.HTM and enlarge the pic titled:  625 Saint Charles with statue of John McDonogh. The credit for this find goes to Cormac!!!

Here are better angles of the boy.  It looks really good, but not exact.  Can anyone do a side-by-side comparison? hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:LafSq11Oct07McDonoughC.jpg hxxp://www-sal.cs.uiuc.edu/~friedman/canal/Pic083a.htm

My pic had him facing the right way, arching his back the right way, etc...  If we rotate that pic and compare it to our clock jockey, I think we will be pleasantly pleased.

compared it seems the right and left arm are wrong, this may have been deliberate, i think bp has turned and changed the look of some objects, in other pics too

Bravo, this looks Great to me!

cw0909 wrote:: compared it seems the right and left arm are wrong, this may have been deliberate, i think bp has turned and changed the look of some objects, in other pics too fox wrote:: The arms are reversed but I think this is it... yes, that is what I said ...but this looks toooo close to be coincidental...even the space between back arm and leg/butt area...

If you can see these pictures... I'll post what I find here. hxxp://thesecretatreasurehunt.shutterfly.com/neworleans

Cormac wrote:: If you can see these pictures... I'll post what I find here. hxxp://thesecretatreasurehunt.shutterfly.com/neworleans Thanks for the pix Cormac.  Your silhouette of the boy is perfect!  And we always suspected he was holding something in his hand...we were right, the hand of his girl friend.

I am going to babble here: FB noticed that it may be a "2" along the boy's butt that he is holding in his hand and a "1" from the sleeve.. I think this may be right. So if V2 goes with this and we look through the middle of the 21 on the statue down St. Charles Ave. toward the palace for a night (Lafayette Hotel) you will see a grassy stretch. Between this grassy area and the street is a sidewalk of red brick divided by gray brick. They look to be about 10' X 10' each. There are 15 of these running each way from the statue area to the next cross streets as best i can tell from street view on google. I want to research how long it has looked like that tho. Also, the grassy area only stretches 12 squares each way with the end 3 being double brick squares. Could be why the little clock hand is on 3 and the big clock hand in the middle of 12. I can email the image to someone to post or i will post it to my page tomorrow.

Also, if you take the P and overlay the clock so the center is at the Mcdonogh statue and the big hand is at the "FIFTH" Circuit Court of Appeals bldg. it matches up with the "V" in preservation. If you then follow the small hand it is exactly over a path going south from the statue with a small circle that appears to be concrete and matches the hand perfectly. There are also 15 rows on the front of the Court bldg. and stars on a shield above the 2 end arched doors.

fox wrote:: The credit for this find goes to Cormac!!!   :app) Not to split hairs here, but my friend mentioned this statue and its resemblance to the harlequin last year in his analysis of Lafayette Square. hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/h ... 164#p67164

ahhh, and so he did.  After reading several of the posts after his discovery, I noticed that there were no other mentions of it or pics posted.  Pity, it looks like his mention of the boy/statue was lost in his lengthy analysis.  Good job Mr. Squidward .  You would have had people fawning all over you had you posted a pic of the statue

reading the posts after Giant Squids post about Lafayette Park , Forrest, he posted a picture of the lamp posts at armstrong park.  i count 7 lampposts with 3 lights on top of each.  that would make 21 lights. are there only 7 lamp posts like that?  if there are only 7, is there anything that makes you think of the verse in the middle lamp posts? here's the picture again: hxxp://flickr.com/photos/92702940@N00/7 ... otostream/ this one made me think of "only 3 stand watch" hxxp://flickr.com/photos/emcrawford/2052660263/

slappybuns wrote:: reading the posts after Giant Squids post about Lafayette Park , Forrest, he posted a picture of the lamp posts at armstrong park.   i count 7 lampposts with 3 lights on top of each.  that would make 21 lights. are there only 7 lamp posts like that?  if there are only 7, is there anything that makes you think of the verse in the middle lamp posts? here's the picture again: hxxp://flickr.com/photos/92702940@N00/7 ... otostream/ this one made me think of "only 3 stand watch" hxxp://flickr.com/photos/emcrawford/2052660263/ There is nothing in the verse, and no, there are more than 7 lampposts. But look at the clock hands in the image - now look at the lamp post. (Another observation by Giant Squid, actually.) Armstrong looks pretty good with the image - we have: the mask and the statue in Armstrong the arch over the armstrong park entrance with what could be moons - moons and stars in the arch on the clock face the bridge that could be a match for the top of the clock the lamp posts that look like the clock hands The problem is, Armstrong didn't have much obvious connection to the verse. I think the most important part of finding the casque in NO is a good fit for the first line. But Armstrong is a decent candidate, because it's actually big enough to dig in. You guys are killing me with all these arguments for 1-acre "parks" which are no more than empty lots in a neighborhood. Also, the correct park has to be feasible to dig in without being conspicuous. That means either City Park or Armstrong Park to me - there's no way you're going to be able to dig in Lafayette square or Jackson square. It's absurd. There is also NO WAY it was buried in Storyland. I'd love to hear how anyone explained away a shovel and a large plexiglass box they were carrying when they bought their ticket to get in. I know people get all excited when they see the storyland images, but please, enough is enough. Also, I have to agree about it being unlikely there is anything left of the casque if it was buried in City Park. But I also don't think any solution offered so far is feasible. Maybe we can at least find a convincing solution before giving up on N.O..

Personally, I don't believe it's "IN" Lafayette Square. But I do believe it's very close to that park... I would guess within one or two blocks. The namesakes meeting NEAR    this site.

Unknown: But Armstrong is a decent candidate, because it's actually big enough to dig in. You guys are killing me with all these arguments for 1-acre "parks" which are no more than empty lots in a neighborhood. Also, the correct park has to be feasible to dig in without being conspicuous. Actually, I don't think Lafayette is that conspicuous. It's sort of quiet there, except for a few days every year...but it's SUCH a great candidate because of the statue! I can't think of another, better confirmer. And we must remember that these things were hidden nearly 30 years ago when things were a lot different. And it's known that he dressed up as a city worker, or maintentance guy--or maybe something else--while he buried them. I think there's plenty of reason to go with Lafayette, and not Armstrong. I would like to have believed that it was Armstrong earlier, but the only confirmatin is the (maybe) mask, and the arch. That's really it.

Inconspicuous?? It's in front a government building! Please, have at it.

Forrest wrote:: ...have at it. I just don't get it guys. We have a V that contains the Sarmiento quote leading us directly to N.O., more specifically the St. Charles Hotel.  We have a park {Lafayette} in N.O. which is: ON St Charles St; just down the street from the original St Charles Hotel; and directly adjacent to the new St Charles Hotel.  In said park is a very interesting statue.  Sure, there 'may' be another legeater besides the one found in Montreal but I challenge you to find our clock boy in Armstrong Park, City Park or for that matter, anywhere else in N.O. and now you want to start searching parks halfway across town? Why? Had I known about this statue when my family and I were in N.O. last summer (OR) if I was within a reasonable driving distance to (OR) if you are willing to fly me out there... I WILL ...government building or not... Once again, I must concur with the lovely shecrab. We finally have very solid confirmers...let's nail this thing down and dig this thing up!

Fox, remember an image in the picture does not indicate proximity to the casque The water tower in chicago and the skyscraper in cleveland for example both way across town.... I will be amazed, happily amazed but still amazed if the casque is actually in lafayette park, a lone man with a shovel would be too conspicous.  I cant see him digging a hole in the lafayette park lawn and BP himself ruled out flowerbeds...

maltedfalcon wrote:: Fox, remember an image in the picture does not indicate proximity to the casque The water tower in chicago and the skyscraper in cleveland for example both way across town.... True but likewise not true.  The Chicago Water Tower got us to Chicago...Bowman got us to Grant Park and low and behold, right at the sight...the fence and fixture.  Cleveland skyscraper got us to Cleveland...perhaps the greek theme of P got us to the Greek Cultural Gardens and low and behold, right at the sight...the wall. Mardis Gras mask gets us to N.O....clock boy gets us to park...and something else in P is at sight.  The last 2 items in that string could very well be reversed...  It all fits tooooo darn nicely to shrug off.  Like I said before...get me there and I will dig.

And I, the Lovely Shecrab (!) Will Help!!! I will even bring my own shovel.

clock boy gets us to park...  which is french,  seems armstrong is not french and something else in P,,,,,,,,,,maybe a horse head near wall we cant see or something to do with the stars and moon just thought of something for stars and moon, sailors can fig the lat and long by the stars, then we have the marker of lat and long that cormac posted here hxxp://thesecretatreasurehunt.shutterfly.com/neworleans arrg geeezzzzzzzzzzz....the star moon could also just be saying the cresent city hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/lamarstyle ... 770480@N01 nothing like blowing your own idea out of the water

Lafayette Square does seem to include so many confirmers. Is it possible that the lifght lavender area of the sleeve of the zombie turned upside down, may be the sihouette of a distinctly shaped tree in the park? While we're at it, we should be scrutinizing the "wrinkles" of the hand. AP

I do see the resemblance between statue-boy and clock-boy, but it doesn't seem strong enough to me to make me believe Lafayette Park is the place. What happened to the hat? The socks? Remember also that the "Lake Michigan" lady in P5 was a darn good likeness of the real thing, and she was a good block away from the casque site and across the railroad tracks. As for why Story Land had everyone so hot and bothered, it's the giant narcissus. I mean... geez, a giant narcissus! Look at P7. That match is just as good if not better than the clock-boy match.

You might not care if it's a government building, but the police will. I am not too excited at the prospect of trying to dig up any public parks in N.O., knowing their PD's reputation. But there is no way in hell I'd try and dig in Lafayette Square. I am very sure that Mr. Priess didn't either - because it doesn't fit his MO. Just look at the sites for the 2 solutions that we have! Yes, we were excited about the statue too, until we went there, and then we used some plain old common sense. First of all, it's not a perfect match, by any means. But more importantly - try to find a good match for -everything- in the verse. If you have the right place, this shouldn't be difficult. But it's not, because unfortunately, it is at best a landmark on the way to somewhere else. You've got one questionable visual reference, which doesn't mean much. Armstrong Park has a lot more going for it if we're going to just throw the verse out the window and try to solve it only using the picture. If you all think you've solved it - there are 5 sections to the verse as I see it. Let's see meaningful connections that lead you straight from the verse to Lafayette Square, and then to the digging spot. Then go dig it up, disguised as city workers (yeah right), I'll happily admit I was wrong. More likely, you'll be posting bail.

Forrest wrote:: But more importantly - try to find a good match for -everything- in the verse. If you have the right place, this shouldn't be difficult. Kind of thought that was what we are doing here. At the place where jewels abound Lafayette Square is one of the biggest judging areas of the Mardi Gras Parade.  This is usually held in late February or early March.  When we were there 5 months later, there were still tons of beads adorning the trees all along St Charles Ave.  I think that these are the jewels... Fifteen rows down to the ground In the middle of twenty-one From end to end I believe this to be the exact spot to dig...ala my brick wall theory.  In my opinion {as well as shecrab's} this theory is as solid as a brick wall Only three stand watch Only 3 statues stand in Lafayette park As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours Every Wednesday afternoon at 5pm is Wednesday in the park...filled with music, partying, friends, etc... Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! Sarmiento's quote that got us to N.O. and more specifically, St Charles Hotel...which I have explained earlier Gnomes admire Fays delight Not sure yet.  Possibly referring to LaFAYette himself The namesakes meeting Near this site. Could also be referring to Lafayette or even the St Charles Hotel You see, it isnt like we are stuck on this park simply because of the clock boy...there is plenty in the V that gets us there as well.

fox wrote:: Kind of thought that was what we are doing here. At the place where jewels abound Lafayette Square is one of the biggest judging areas of the Mardi Gras Parade.  This is usually held in late February or early March.  When we were there 5 months later, there were still tons of beads adorning the trees all along St Charles Ave.  I think that these are the jewels... Fifteen rows down to the ground In the middle of twenty-one From end to end I believe this to be the exact spot to dig...ala my brick wall theory.  In my opinion {as well as shecrab's} this theory is as solid as a brick wall  ::) Only three stand watch Only 3 statues stand in Lafayette park As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours Every Wednesday afternoon at 5pm is Wednesday in the park...filled with music, partying, friends, etc... Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! Sarmiento's quote that got us to N.O. and more specifically, St Charles Hotel...which I have explained earlier Gnomes admire Fays delight Not sure yet.  Possibly referring to LaFAYette himself  ??? The namesakes meeting Near this site. Could also be referring to Lafayette or even the St Charles Hotel You see, it isnt like we are stuck on this park simply because of the clock boy...there is plenty in the V that gets us there as well. 8) I respectfully disagree. You started at the location, not with the verse - and most of that stuff is a real stretch. The first and most important line for a specific starting location (to follow dig instructions from) is the first line: "at the place where jewels abound." Saying you saw beads in the trees is pretty weak - there are beads all over New Orleans during and after mardi gras.  St. Charles Ave is long and could lead to several other parks, as well. This is not any kind of specific link to Lafeyette Square. The next 4 lines are definitely specific landmark -> digging spot instructions. No question. But they are basically useless until you have a strong landmark to start from. Until then they could fit a ton of different situations. The 2 lines after that "sound of friends" could easily refer to any park in New Orleans, and for that matter tons of areas nowhere near parks. No specific link to Lafayette Square, by any means, if it is taken literally as you explain it. This leads me to believe it has some other reference hidden in it - I doubt that 2 lines of any verse is just filler. The 3 lines after that are the St. Charles Hotel reference that my friend discovered. (Believe me, we immediately investigated parks in the vicinity.) This could very well be the first starting point from which we make our way to the final spot. But that is not a solid link to Lafayette Square - we need something between the hotel and the square to get us there. It is also what we use to link the verse to New Orleans, and image 7, and could very well be for that purpose only. The last 4 lines ("namesakes' meeting") are what I expect to give us the context for "where jewels abound." They describe an intersection. I think these 4 lines gives the general area to find the reference in "where jewels abound". But we don't have a very convincing for Lafayette Square (or anything else) from this section. Without it, any argument for a specific park is pretty weak. I think every section is vital and if you have the solution, their meanings should be obvious. So far Lafayette Square only has a few vague possibilities, and a huge strike against it, which is that it would be very impractical to dig directly in front a US Federal Courthouse. So instead of locking onto Lafayette Square, let's try and nail down the meanings of the sections which we are most likely supposed to start with in order to end up there (or somewhere more digger friendly.)

Forrest wrote:: I respectfully disagree. You started at the location, not with the verse - and most of that stuff is a real stretch. Forrest wrote:: The first and most important line for a specific starting location (to follow dig instructions from) is the first line: "at the place where jewels abound." Saying you saw beads in the trees is pretty weak - there are beads all over New Orleans during and after mardi gras.  St. Charles Ave is long and could lead to several other parks, as well. This is not any kind of specific link to Lafeyette Square. Forrest wrote:: The next 4 lines are definitely specific landmark -> digging spot instructions. No question. But they are basically useless until you have a strong landmark to start from. Until then they could fit a ton of different situations. Forrest wrote:: The 2 lines after that "sound of friends" could easily refer to any park in New Orleans, and for that matter tons of areas nowhere near parks. No specific link to Lafayette Square, by any means, if it is taken literally as you explain it. This leads me to believe it has some other reference hidden in it - I doubt that 2 lines of any verse is just filler. Forrest wrote:: The 3 lines after that are the St. Charles Hotel reference that my friend discovered. (Believe me, we immediately investigated parks in the vicinity.) This could very well be the first starting point from which we make our way to the final spot. But that is not a solid link to Lafayette Square - we need something between the hotel and the square to get us there. Forrest wrote:: The last 4 lines ("namesakes' meeting") are what I expect to give us the context for "where jewels abound." They describe an intersection. I think these 4 lines gives the general area to find the reference in "where jewels abound". But we don't have a very convincing for Lafayette Square (or anything else) from this section. Without it, any argument for a specific park is pretty weak. Forrest wrote:: I think every section is vital and if you have the solution, their meanings should be obvious. So far Lafayette Square only has a few vague possibilities, and a huge strike against it, which is that it would be very impractical to dig directly in front a US Federal Courthouse. TenByThirteen wrote:: Also, as for any speculation regarding the phrase "Where M & B are set in stone" I did read through some of the posts and it was noted that Byron make reference to the names of Mozart and Beethoven carved in a building facade. However, our group of five -- that would be Shadowrunner; Eric, Dave, myself, my brother; Tim and Dan all took the M&B reference to mean the statues. It helped us solve it, so if anyone wants to claim otherwise.... Forrest wrote:: So instead of locking onto Lafayette Square, let's try and nail down the meanings of the sections which we are most likely supposed to start with in order to end up there (or somewhere more digger friendly.) Not so.  We have believed for ALONG time, due to the lat/lon {which I found}, that this P went to N.O.  For the longest of time, we have been mainly focusing on either City Park or Jackson Sq area because of possible tie ins to another V.  It was not until the Sarmiento quote was found that we even found ourselves around Lafayette Square.  Once around there, low and behold, clock boy.  That sure sounds like a reasonable and logical way of following clues and not just chasing pictures. 1)  Yes, I know there are beads everywhere, but don't you think that at the most prominent judging spot...the beads would be much more 'abound'? 2)  Sure, St Charles could lead to several other parks as well...but let's not forget that it also leads right past Lafayette Square. 3)  Never claimed this line to be a direct link to Lafayette Square, but together with other lines of the V and items in the P, Lafayette Square sure seems more and more plausable.  As long as you are on the topic of "first lines" = "starting locations", let's review the 2 that have been found. a) Where M and B are set in stone referred to the names of Mozart and Beethoven carved in a building facade {as told by BP}... now, how on earth does that get you to Grant Park, much less Chicago itself?  It doesn't! b) Beneath two countries There is still debate over this first line.  As quoted by Egbert for his interview with the Cleveland Plain Dealer "Zinn opens The Secret and reads the first line of the verse. 'Beneath two countries.'  He looks at the camera.  'We're thinking Greece and Italy.' {making reference to the back of the Greek Cultural Garden & the nearby Italian Garden}.  And this leads directly to Cleveland's Greek Cultural Garden how? Both of those 2 1st lines were not located/solved until long after finding the: City; Park; and quite possibly the burial site. c) Fortress north Cold as glass = Hermann Park in Houston how? d) If Thucydides is North of Xenophon = ties in nicely with Boston...but where? e) Lane Two twenty two = stumped big time using your theory f) Of all the romance retold =  ??? not until later lines do we learn our city may be Charleston...but where? g) View the three stories of Mitchell = sounds like Atlanta to me but alas...looks to be somehow related to Milwaukee h) The first chapter Written in water = this one actually does lead us right to the entrance of FOY i) Pass two friends of octave = with lots of research, this one could start us at the WB Monument on our path to the Elizabethan Gardens. Basically useless until you have a strong landmark to start from?  Maybe they are describing said landmark as my brick wall theory does.  Yes, they could fit a ton of different situations but coupled with interpretations of lines of the V as well as P images, that list is narrowed down drastically.  The 3 stand watch refer to the 3 statues in the park...completely seperate from the 15 rows and center of 21. Once again...coupled with blah blah blah, etc...  Using your reasoning, any line in any V could refer to ANY park in any city and for that matter, tons of areas nowhere near parks.  Well, yeah.  I really don't consider Wednesdays in the Park to be filler. Yes, I understand your friend discovered that...and such a huge discovery it is.  I never claimed it to be a solid link to Lafayette Square but you yourself said "(Believe me, we immediately investigated parks in the vicinity.)" and I am sure Lafayette Square was one of them.  That quote did not just get us to N.O., but to a very specific area of the Crescent City which happens to be right there with Lafayette Sq. That is a good idea but who knows if it is correct.  Once again, never claimed this to point directly to Lafayette Sq.  True, "Without it, any argument for a specific park is pretty weak."  including also Armstrong Park, City Park or any other park or non-park area of N.O... but coupled with the blah blah blah.... Every section Vital?  Really?  Did Sir Egg concretely nail down each and every line/word/meaning of the V and every single image of the P before heading out?  I don't even know if Greece & Italy were the correct solution of that line.  Let's also turn to our good friend TenByThirteen who was one of the group that found the Chicago casque who said: That definitely wasn't nailed down but they somehow found the casque.  So you see, even if the beads adorning the trees along Lafayette Sq are not the 'jewels abound' it does not definitively mean that this park is disqualified as a possible site. We have to lock on to something my friend, and right now Lafayette Square has my vote.  So far this park has more solid leads, confirmers and explanations/solutions then do any other nearby parks.  I would bet if we nailed this thing down in Lafayette Sq, you could even get employees of the feared Federal Bldg across the street to help you unearth it.

fox wrote:: a) Where M and B are set in stone referred to the names of Mozart and Beethoven carved in a building facade {as told by BP}... now, how on earth does that get you to Grant Park, much less Chicago itself?  It doesn't! b) Beneath two countries There is still debate over this first line.  As quoted by Egbert for his interview with the Cleveland Plain Dealer "Zinn opens The Secret and reads the first line of the verse. 'Beneath two countries.'  He looks at the camera.  'We're thinking Greece and Italy.' {making reference to the back of the Greek Cultural Garden & the nearby Italian Garden}.  And this leads directly to Cleveland's Greek Cultural Garden how? Both of those 2 1st lines were not located/solved until long after finding the: City; Park; and quite possibly the burial site. From the water tower driving down michigan avenue in a straight line you come to  M&B, the next  line leads you to Grant park which is the next left after M&B In Cleveland its a straight line to Liberty Ave turn left and the road curves along all the country gardens. seek the one with the two pillars and then go to the nearest point where you can stand between two countries. Throwing my 2 cents into the middle of your discussion, you both make some very good points and some very weak points... Explore, throw out ideas, everybody should try to tear them down, the ones left standing are going to be pretty good... The acid test on lafayette squre is of course, dig up a casque there...

fox wrote:: Not so.  We have believed for ALONG time, due to the lat/lon {which I found}, that this P went to N.O.  For the longest of time, we have been mainly focusing on either City Park or Jackson Sq area because of possible tie ins to another V.  It was not until the Sarmiento quote was found that we even found ourselves around Lafayette Square.  Once around there, low and behold, clock boy.  That sure sounds like a reasonable and logical way of following clues and not just chasing pictures. fox wrote:: 1)  Yes, I know there are beads everywhere, but don't you think that at the most prominent judging spot...the beads would be much more 'abound'? fox wrote:: 3)  Never claimed this line to be a direct link to Lafayette Square, but together with other lines of the V and items in the P, Lafayette Square sure seems more and more plausable.  As long as you are on the topic of "first lines" = "starting locations", let's review the 2 that have been found. fox wrote:: Basically useless until you have a strong landmark to start from?  Maybe they are describing said landmark as my brick wall theory does.  Yes, they could fit a ton of different situations but coupled with interpretations of lines of the V as well as P images, that list is narrowed down drastically.  The 3 stand watch refer to the 3 statues in the park...completely seperate from the 15 rows and center of 21. fox wrote:: Once again...coupled with blah blah blah, etc...  Using your reasoning, any line in any V could refer to ANY park in any city and for that matter, tons of areas nowhere near parks.  Well, yeah.  I really don't consider Wednesdays in the Park to be filler. fox wrote:: That is a good idea but who knows if it is correct.  Once again, never claimed this to point directly to Lafayette Sq.  True, "Without it, any argument for a specific park is pretty weak."  including also Armstrong Park, City Park or any other park or non-park area of N.O... but coupled with the blah blah blah.... fox wrote:: That definitely wasn't nailed down but they somehow found the casque.  So you see, even if the beads adorning the trees along Lafayette Sq are not the 'jewels abound' it does not definitively mean that this park is disqualified as a possible site. fox wrote:: We have to lock on to something my friend, and right now Lafayette Square has my vote.  So far this park has more solid leads, confirmers and explanations/solutions then do any other nearby parks. Again - the boy in the statue is not a great match for the picture. His posture is -not- the same as the man in the clock face, look at his arm. He doesn't have the socks, he's got no hat...it's possible but not great. And saying that one clue references the St. Charles hotel, but you have no idea how to make the jump from there to the square other than by saying "there's a lot of beads there during Mardi Gras" IS a stretch. I'm sorry, but no. I think there has to be a better explanation than "jewels are beads - there are beads here during mardi gras, it must mean here." I think you misunderstood me. I was not saying that all solutions use "first lines" = "starting locations" and actually not even this one. I was saying that because that line is followed by the most specific instructions, I think it's safe to assume some things: 1) that line gives us the exact place to start looking for where to follow those instructions 2) that line is the second most specific clue out of all of them, (2nd to last step) and that's why we need context for it, which should be provided elsewhere in the verse. Yes, basically useless, until you have solid connections from each part of the verse to the next. Btw, you just speculated that there 'might' be 21 bricks on the top - that's a quite a jump from looking at a picture that just shows a small section of it. Are you referring to the concert series that has been going on less than a year? 1) No kidding it includes the other parks - that's why I haven't said "it's definitely in this park! let's go dig!" 2) Once again, my point is, your only tentative links are the clues which we (probably) are supposed to follow last. Those are going to be the ones that are easiest to match to the wrong location without solid context from other clues. No, it doesn't definitively mean it's disqualified, but it means we have very little reason to think that it is, and a decent reason to believe that it's not, based on the characteristics of the other casque sites. We do? Tally of your "solid" leads: jewels = beads, statue of a boy that somewhat resembles the man in the clock. Speculative match that a brick wall is 15/21. Park has 3 of something. The other solutions had many visual clues from the park - not just one. And the explanations for the verse were solid and almost obvious in hindsight. Lafayette Square seems extremely weak to me based on that alone. But if you are so convinced...go dig! I'm going to keep looking.

is forest the same person as forest_blight? just trying to keep everybody straight in my head... tough to do along with all the voices....

Heh - no. We're different. But the namesakes apparently are meeting on this site!

Unknown: The first and most important line for a specific starting location (to follow dig instructions from) is the first line: "at the place where jewels abound." Saying you saw beads in the trees is pretty weak - there are beads all over New Orleans during and after mardi gras.  St. Charles Ave is long and could lead to several other parks, as well. This is not any kind of specific link to Lafeyette Square. There is only one way to solve this argument. GO DIG. If nothing is found, or if it proves an impossible task for some reason, then I'll consider other places. Right now, I'm totally with Fox and Lafayette Sq. as a location. I think we're looking TOO Hard right now for confirmers, when this wasn't supposed to be so difficult. For instance: when Forrest asserts that: This is simply untrue. The reviewing stands for the Mardi gras are placed there. That's a specific link to jewels if the jewels refer to the beads. it's a simple, clean connection. And even if it's not the RIGHT connection, in this case, NEW ORLEANS ITSELF is "the place where jewels abound" because it has an entire neighborhood that have "jewel-named" streets--as well as four parks likewise. That makes this line either a strong connection--or an even stronger connection. We absolutely know we're in the right city either way. I think Fox's entire post with the solution is not only correct, but accurate. And there's only one way to prove it--dig it up. If I had the time and money to take a trip, I'd already be there. Oh...and I need to add one more thing: that clock boy does not have the hat or the stockings--but that's fine with me. The statue of Liberty's face in Image 12 doesn't have the torch or the crown; there is no Centaur in Cleveland and no Leprechaun with a castle hat in Chicago. How else do you disguise what is a very distinctive sillhouette and shape unless you change it's decorative elements? It is necessary to mislead--to misdirect--to make something known but not totally identify it when you're doing a puzzle of this nature. I think it's the absolute BEST match we've ever seen for that clock boy. The posture, the TYPE of statue--even the tmie period are simply right ON.

It's simple, but weak, and far from clean. We already know the verse is NO, from the literary reference. Have fun, guys.

shecrab wrote:: This is simply untrue. The reviewing stands for the Mardi gras are placed there. That's a specific link to jewels if the jewels refer to the beads. it's a simple, clean connection. And even if it's not the RIGHT connection, in this case, NEW ORLEANS ITSELF is "the place where jewels abound" because it has an entire neighborhood that have "jewel-named" streets--as well as four parks likewise. That makes this line either a strong connection--or an even stronger connection. We absolutely know we're in the right city either way. shecrab wrote:: Oh...and I need to add one more thing: that clock boy does not have the hat or the stockings--but that's fine with me. The statue of Liberty's face in Image 12 doesn't have the torch or the crown; there is no Centaur in Cleveland and no Leprechaun with a castle hat in Chicago. How else do you disguise what is a very distinctive sillhouette and shape unless you change it's decorative elements? It is necessary to mislead--to misdirect--to make something known but not totally identify it when you're doing a puzzle of this nature. I think it's the absolute BEST match we've ever seen for that clock boy. The posture, the TYPE of statue--even the tmie period are simply right ON. Lightly agree with you here- its a possibility- but on the found casques when the clues are explained you go Ah!! sure!!!  this is just sort of an OK, I'll go with that for lack of a better idea... While I agree it matches New Orleans in general, at this point we dont need a city confirmer, we need an exact spot to start the ground search.  At the spot where jewels abound (IMHO) needs to resolve to a specifc unique spot... This I agree totally - the two match... dont know if that means dig here, though... But I believe. the harlequin in the image represents this statue Even if somebody cant dig yet ,we should at least be able to get good fotos of everything in the park, its not that big!!

forrest, i am stuck on elysian fields because of giant squid's find about "where jewels abound".  i see washington square is right off of elysian field avenue, and that there is an elysian field there.  i'm finding it difficult to find out much information about this park.  have you been there?  do you find this park a possibility? i'm still stuck on the next line about 15 rows... i found this: This park provides a large green space in which to play Frisbee or catch some sun. During the recovery period following the storm, relief groups created a campground here, offering free food and music. The far side of the park borders Elysian Fields, named for Paris's Champs-Élysées. Though it never achieved the grandeur of its French counterpart, Elysian Fields is a major thoroughfare. Small-scale festivals or events sometimes take place in Washington Square, which is the only city public space with a French-style double alley of oaks.

From a 1904 tourist guide to New Orleans... "On the west side of the square, facing the City Hall, is the monument erected by the public school children of the public school system of New Orleans, John McDonogh. Once a year, on the anniversary of McDonogh’s death, the public school children gather here and strew the mound with flowers."

hxxp://louisdl.louislibraries.org/cdm4/ ... OX=1&REC=4

ok... for those not happy with a simple solution (even though I am) here is one a little more overthought... 15 rows down to the ground.... 15 blocks from Preservation Hall following Royal that becomes St Charles past the hotel reference and past Lafayette Square... down to Lee Circle basically a round shaped park with a tall statue that from above looks like a sun dial... you could probably tell the hour by the shadow's position in the circle on a certain hour of a certain day of a certain month... in the middle of 21 ... if hours it could be 21:00 (9pm) half (or middle) could be 10:30am... so where the shadow top touches at 10:30 am dig. lol

lee circle images hxxp://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Categ ... ew_Orleans

If people had reservations about digging in Lafayette Square, there is no way in that this is a diggable spot. Lee Circle is basically an oversized round-a-bout with constant traffic.  The logic to get there was good and made sense but I HIGHLY doubt this is our location.

If people had reservations about digging in Lafayette Square, there is no way in that this is a diggable spot.  Lee Circle is basically an oversized round-a-bout with constant traffic.  The logic to get there was good and made sense but I HIGHLY doubt this is our location.

I agree... but it has to be close. Not totally ruling out Lafayette Park. I would like to know the dimensions of the grassy area to the south of the statue.

To the south of which statue?  The one in Lee Circle?

To the south of which statue?  The one in Lee Circle ?

The Mcdonogh statue.

I know nobody liked this theory when I first proposed it but I am going to revisit it. I believe that image7(New Orleans) goes with verse1 because of the anagram that I found in the capital letters of verse1 that indicate (to me) a starting point of Spanish Plaza.  If you check Google maps, Spanish Plaza is just down the street from Lafayette square. For those who don't remember this theory, it goes like this: take the capital letters that begin each line of a verse and separate them by whether the lines rhyme or not and then anagram one group or the other looking for something that indicates a city and an iconic image.  What I got for verse1 is NO (I) S (I) PLA.  I used the two left over I's as blanks to separate the word groups.  Just as I did for verse12 where I got CHI (B) WA (B) T I admit this is ambiguous and hard to swallow for some but it is certainly no less ambiguous or obscure than using half a sentence from a book noone has ever read to indicate a hotel that is no longer there.  After all when it comes to these puzzles all we have is ambiguous and obscure, I say we embrace it. I like Malted_Falcon's theories about starting at iconic images and walking down the street it is on until you get to a cross street(in fact, I think I proposed something similar awhile back).  However, I don't think they are straight shots from the iconic image to the park(that would have been too easy) so far at least there has always been a cross street. In Chicago, start at the Water Tower walk down Michigan Ave. until you get to the cross street of Congress Parkway(which comes from the line in the verse And to Congress R is known ) turn left and you are almost immediately in Grant Park. In Cleveland, start at the Terminal Tower and walk down Superior Street until you get to Liberty street(which comes from the picture of L and the bell in image4) turn left and continue until you get to the Cleveland Cultural Gardens. In New Orleans, start at the Spanish Plaza and walk down Poydras Street until you get to St. Charles Ave(which comes from the quote in the book Abroad in America) turn left and go a short distance and you are at Lafayette Square. It always seems to be a left at the cross street.  Anybody know whether Poydras is French for something to do with water?  As all the iconic images (so far) are on a street having to do with water.  Milwaukee City Hall is on Water Street.  But I guess since Spanish Plaza is on the River Walk this would satisfy that criteria. That's my two cents, I like Lafayette Square a lot.  Congratulations to all of you who helped find this possible location.

For a fuller explanation of my theory about the verses containing anagrams see either one of these threads Verse1/page 26 or Possible Clues in the Verse/page 1

i think i found a brick building that looks like the wall. it looks like a pump house, for the watering systems in the park. the building looks like it may have been there awhile too. i tried to cut it out and blow up to get a count on the bricks, it was to fuzzy to see clear. the building is in the background of pic 24 in first link, not sure if the other links will work right. this is the link cormac had posted awhile back. i also think this is the park, a great place to dig and bury, as it is in the Business District of N.O., and after say 7pm prob little or no traffic, weekends would be even better, that is if there are no events going on that day, im sure bp would have known about any events, and waited maybe come back the next day hxxp://picasaweb.google.com/LafayetteSq ... ugust2005# hxxp://picasaweb.google.com/LafayetteSq ... #slideshow hxxp://picasaweb.google.com/LafayetteSq ... 5626882626

Here is something interesting that goes along with Fox's theory that these things are all somehow connected.  If Golden Gate Park is the iconic image for San Francisco one of the streets that it is on is Fulton Street(inventor of the steamboat) if you head east for quite a ways and then turn left at either Laguna Street or Gough Street you get to Lafayette Park. Probably not useful but interesting

Unknown: Poydras is French for something to do with water? Nope. Poydras is the surname of Julien Poydras, a man who founded the NOLA Female Orphanage Asylum back in the 19th century. The current Poydras St was named in his honor. A "namesake" as it were. The name has no meaning that I've been able to uncover in French that has anything to do with water.  It would not have been spelled like that originally--but I can't find anything that even comes close except poivre ras --"closed cropped pepper." (?) Both streets--Lafayette Street and Poydras Street are "namesakes" of honorees in New Orleans--and both were annexed to New Orleans proper on the same day. The namesakes meeting on this site.

shecrab wrote:: Both streets--Lafayette Street and Poydras Street are "namesakes" of honorees in New Orleans--and both were annexed to New Orleans proper on the same day. The namesakes meeting on this site. digger7 wrote:: I believe that image7(New Orleans) goes with verse1 because of the anagram that I found in the capital letters of verse1 that indicate (to me) a starting point of Spanish Plaza.  If you check Google maps, Spanish Plaza is just down the street from Lafayette square. digger7 wrote:: it is certainly no less ambiguous or obscure than using half a sentence from a book noone has ever read to indicate a hotel that is no longer there. This is an interesting take on that line...and makes a lot of sense.  Near Lafayette Square {where the casque is buried} is the intersection [meeting place] of the 2 [namesake] streets. There are times that you just confuse the heck out of me digger. This entire post of yours is full of some very good ideas but.....you state that you are not too comfortable with V2 because You then use V1 which "obviously" has a line from the Hermann work which leads us to Hermann Park in Houston.  These references may be hard to swallow but they are impossible to overlook.  They are in many of the V's if not all of them. V1 - What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight.......as shown above. V2 - Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night!......Sarmiento work leading us to N.O. V3 - If Thucydides is North of Xenophon.......reference to Walpole quote about Boston & NY V6 - Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Cruel and bold..........I think this is the correct section referring to Treasure Island & Edwin and Edwina named after him.....seems to be referencing Sarmiento again and leading us to Charleston V9 - The first chapter Written in water........not really a literary reference but the words quoted from the FOY entrance sign. V11 - Dark forest....from the entrance sign to the Elizabethan Gardens.  Seems to be more than coincidental when coupled with: To achieve By dauntless and inconquerable Determination.....found on the WB Monument which is not too far away. If there were only one other possible quote from something, I may be more inclined to side with your thoughts about the ambiguity of the Sarmiento St Charles quote but.....

fox wrote:: Edwin and Edwina named after him.....seems to be referencing Sarmiento again and leading us to Charleston Slight correction here, fox. The quote is from a chapter about Edward Wilmot Blyden, not Sarmiento, and refers to an Edwin and Edwina born in Charleston. Both the Sarmiento quote and the Blyden reference do occur in the same book, but in chapters written by different people.

If V1 were to go with this P and the pic itself simply leads us to NO. (Here is a big what if.) WHAT IF: We start at the fortress north (Spanish Fort just north of Wisner Blvd.). Then we go southerly to the first Friendship (Friendship Gardens in City Park). (#12 in the link below) hxxp://neworleanscitypark.com/mapofpark.html Then we go through the wood (a few trees) and across a parking lot or 2 looking for a lion. We find the lion at the Peristyle (#2 in the link) but here we are stuck looking at the water in a lagoon. Soooo we have to veer off course to get around the water. Now without losing our perspective we go around to City Park Ave. This part of City Park Ave. is appx the 700-1200 blocks. Now, I am not sure if there is a house numbered 982 but if you use your google earth and go to 982 City Park Ave. there is a crosswalk right into city park. (appx. #1 in the link) Then if you walk straight toward the peristyle there is bridge across a small of scale leg of the lagoon that looks just like the top of the clock (as mentioned before). This bridge leads to a little island in the lagoon across from the peristyle and we still have our perspective. Now i don't know what is on this island.. looks to be a statue/tower or 2 there and some trees but anywhere you would dig on this island and look back toward the lion you will be looking straight at the entrance of Storyland and i know it has a train. Still looking for that darn spout tho. I will buy a picnic lunch for anybody that will go take pics.

Sorry for the double posts but i found a good pic of the bridge and the lion/peristyle. Go to #26 of 69. hxxp://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... n%26sa%3DN

Those are all good ideas but you seem to be excluding the most important part of the V which directly ties in with Hermann.  If that was all that 'possibly' lead us to Houston, then yes...I may be willing to consider your ideas....but, low and behold, smack dab in the middle of Hermann Park is a very well known locomotive, engine #982.  Using this part of the V got us {wilhouse } to the park and everything else falls into place.

I realize that, fox. I am just not looking away from any possibilities until a casque is in hand. Things seem to be getting tied together by literary references that may have a wider scope or none at all. I dunno.. just throwing out ideas..

I've said this before, but I'm saying it again now--and it is only my opinion, not based on fact or even experience. However, that said-- I believe that when BP said he wanted us to use both the verse and the p. for solving these location riddles, he was being deliberately vague to make it more interesting and mysterious. Therefore, any attempt to quantify the verses by saying we "should" have this many or that many clues is a futile exercise. I really don't think quantification can be used here, and I don't think it will be proven even when they are solved. Some p.'s have state images--some don't. Some v.'s have literary references, some don't. Some have quotes. One has an anacrostic. Logic would dictate that just because there is one incident of "clue type A" in a verse, that it does not necessarily follow there will be the same "clue type A"  in another verse. A bit more philosophy: Having lived through the times, having been an ardent follower of the authors' writings in other publications and in other venues, I can tell you that their minds were probably working a lot more organically than logically. I can really get excited when the anacrostic SELOY is shown--but not quite as excited about the Edwin/Edwina twins that were mentioned in the Sarmiento. I think it's far more likely that he was referring not to those babies, but to Edwin Harleston and his adopted daughter Edwina--whom he RENAMED Edwina when she was adopted. Edwin Harleston, an African-American painter, lived right down by White Point Gardens in Charleston, and is a sort of local 'folk hero' there. To me, that was more to the point than the Blyden connection. However, it's convenient that both still point to Charleston--and yet--it's maybe just as likely that he used the Blyden connection because he had already used the Sarmiento book! My point here is, (after all this rambling! I know!!) is that we can't afford to be too nit-picky. I think a preponderance of the evidence is all that is necessary to join a verse with a picture. And provide a location. (example: the rebus "millstone, walking stick, key. We read this as Milwaukee, but why aren't we reading it as Stone-cane Key? Becuz there's another image from MILWAUKEE in the P.!) I really believe that is how this puzzle was designed. At the time this book was published, the armchair treasure-hunting culture was in its infancy--Masquerade had only been published a scant 2 years prior to The Secret. No one (other than Kit Williams, of course) had a clear vision of how a hunt ought to be made at all, and there were no past experiences to use as reference. That's probably why it looks as uneven as it does. It actually works to our advantage that it is so plastic. We can use vaguer and more wide-ranging clues. But it also defies quantification. From looking hard at the two solved casque locations, we can see that there are more clues than we need in BOTH verse and picture. And words are very, er, malleably defined. I suppose that's why this puzzle is more attractive to me than, say, ATT was (which broke apart once the SINGLE method was discovered.) It's also probalby the reason these casques have remained hidden for so long. Anyway, rant over...just throwing in my Two Cents' worth again.

Anyone dig Lafayette yet?

Don't know if anyone is around N.O. anymore.  I sure wish I was because I wouldv'e already dug.

fox wrote:: Don't know if anyone is around N.O. anymore.  I sure wish I was because I wouldv'e already dug. No, there's just no solution posted that's remotely complete or reasonable. I looked at that brick bench today. As expected, there are far more than 21 bricks across the top. There are not even close to 15 rows of bricks horizontally. Counting mortar is trying to force something that doesn't work. This is not even close to a possible match. Also, you might like to know that there are far more than 21 trees, and more than 21 old oaks. No obvious rows of trees or groupings that could be used to link them to any of the verse clues. There are a ton of great options for visuals from Lafayette Square, none of which match anything in the picture. We have plenty of things from image 7 that we know are clues, none of which match Lafayette Square - with the exception of this debatable statue, (whose posture does not match the image.) I might buy that link if there were tons of other connections...instead we have almost zero.

We are looking at (or have ruled out) the following parks: City Park, Audubon Park, Lafayette Square, Armstrong Park, Harlequin/Tourmaline/Tiara/Preidot Park, Lakeshore Park, Coliseum Park, Jackson Square, Woldenberg Park and The Garden of the Americas. If anyone has another park that they believe is a decent candidate, and would like us to look into, it please list it below, and give any reason you think it is a feasible candidate. Thanks.

cw0909 wrote:: i think i found a brick building that looks like the wall. it looks like a pump house, for the watering systems in the park. the building looks like it may have been there awhile too. i tried to cut it out and blow up to get a count on the bricks, it was to fuzzy to see clear. Also like the wall, it is in no way a match for anything in the verse or image. Here is a better picture: Time to move on, people. (At least until there is a GOOD reason to come back.)

Forrest wrote:: There are a ton of great options for visuals from Lafayette Square, none of which match anything in the picture. We have plenty of things from image 7 that we know are clues, none of which match Lafayette Square - with the exception of this debatable statue, (whose posture does not match the image.) I might buy that link if there were tons of other connections...instead we have almost zero. Forrest wrote:: We are looking at (or have ruled out) the following parks: City Park, Audubon Park, Lafayette Square, Armstrong Park, Harlequin/Tourmaline/Tiara/Preidot Park, Lakeshore Park, Coliseum Park, Jackson Square, Woldenberg Park and The Garden of the Americas. Forrest wrote:: Time to move on, people. (At least until there is a GOOD reason to come back.) You find me another statue that looks even "remotely" similar to our clock boy and I may follow but until then......  Personally, and I don't think it is just me around here, I think that the McD statue is 'almost' a dead ringer. Until you find a casque elsewhere, I would say that ALL of those parks are still very valid possibilities. I would say a casque is a pretty good reason...

Unknown: You find me another statue that looks even "remotely" similar to our clock boy and I may follow but until then......  Personally, and I don't think it is just me around here, I think that the McD statue is 'almost' a dead ringer. I completely agree here....how can anyone say it isn't? The photos alone show that from a particular angle, that boy's posture is almost exactly the same as the sprite on the clock face. And it doesn't take a genius to see it. I just love how some people think we should give up BEFORE any digging gets done. If I were a paranoid person, I'd think they were trying to lure us away from a likely spot.

Okay, I'll come out of hiding and agree with Forrest on this one, and it has nothing to do with us being namesakes. I don't think the match to clock-boy is close enough, and the relative lack of other good matches in the area adds to its unlikelihood. The pose is not really the same, and what about clock-boy's hat and the argyle socks one might find on a golfer or cyclist of yore? (note the resemblance of the clock hand to bicycles). People aren't digging primarily because there is nowhere in the park where X marks the spot, so to speak. How do the V and P narrow it down to, say, a 2' x 2' area to dig? The wall idea was shot down. And why would BP want to bury a casque in that lousy park when there are so many better options?

Aha,! Namesakes agreeing near the site! that must mean something!!! I think the boy on the statue is definitely a match. But jus because something is in the picture doesnt mean its anywhere near the site. It could just be along the way.... I think we are making great progress, and notice the progress comes with lots of arguing and stating ideas and shooting them down and going on. Everybody keep up the great work and dont let yourself get discouraged as ideas are considered and put aside for better ones. !!!

fox wrote:: You find me another statue that looks even "remotely" similar to our clock boy and I may follow but until then......  Personally, and I don't think it is just me around here, I think that the McD statue is 'almost' a dead ringer. fox wrote:: Until you find a casque elsewhere, I would say that ALL of those parks are still very valid possibilities. It might not be a reference to a statue. Regardless, one image clue match is not a solution! I didn't ask that, did I? Nor did I say that we had ruled them all out. We have been to those parks, we have lists of clue matches for each one, if there are any - some have been ruled out of our search because there aren't any clues that match them at all. What I asked was if anyone had any OTHER parks to suggest, in case we are missing one.

shecrab wrote:: I just love how some people think we should give up BEFORE any digging gets done. If I were a paranoid person, I'd think they were trying to lure us away from a likely spot. I just love how you act like I'm trying to stop you from digging anywhere. Go dig to your heart's content! My friend mentioned the statue's resemblance to the picture LAST YEAR, along with his other information and hypothesis. You think he did THAT in order to hamstring you, too? I'm sure he'll be happy to hear it. I'm just curious - are you and fox consciously trying to run off the only 2 people in the N.O. area who are actively looking and posting here?

Unknown: And why would BP want to bury a casque in that lousy park when there are so many better options? Huh??? what BETTER place than a park? Any other place is private property, most likely--and it specifically says that no casque resides in cemetaries or flower beds. Just what else does that leave? Not to mention that fact that the only two that were found were found in parks . As for the other "images" in the picture---I might respectfully ask, what images? Are you suggesting that we look for a loup garoux? For a sleeve with a ruffled edge? for a mask that resembles Louis Armstrong crossed with Bill Maher? A grandfather clock with curly-cue hands? A checkerboard--or maybe it's a tablecloth?  Just which of these images do you think we might actually find in situ? The latitude and longitude say New Orleans. No doubt about it. The word "Preservation" is associated with New Orleans, no doubt about that either. The arch can be found in City Park AND in Armstrong Park--in many places. The rest is all symbolism --except for that little figure on the clock--and we found that!  I honestly don't see why the heck anyone is arguing the point at all! That little boy on the statue is the closest thing we've come across in the entire image to a specific place. And now some want to step all over it as "not being close enough?"  I find that unnecessarily picayune (to use a phrase from--guess where.) It's like a while back, when Paul Skoda was still alive....we discussed this very thing. That's why he drew the picture (which I posted on this forum) of the sign that said "dig here."  It's almost unbelievable that you need MORE incentive to dig in Lafayette. If there WERE any other images, and they didn't match, then I'd say that yes--it's unlikely that Laf.Sq. is the place--but there just aren't! This is pretty much it . As for the figure's dress--he has been called at various times on this board a jockey, a baseball player, a harlequin and now he's a bicyclist? You want a statue to sport argyle socks to make your match more firm? The fact that the statue is wearing knickers and so is the clock boy is enough for me--the fact that the statue boy's dress is early 20th century and so is the clock boy's is good enough for me--the reason that JJP probably DRESSED the clock boy in the argyles and cap was so we wouldn't be able to identify it so thoroughly that there would be no doubt--exactly like the "spirit of the Great Lakes" statue was disguised--he put wings on it, and there aren't any wings on the original sculpture--that's also good enough for me. I will concede that so far , there isn't anything that we can see matches "in the middle of 21", and the bricks/mortar rows are just a bit of a stretch. But who knows WHAT he meant by that? There are definitely more than 21 bollards in L.Square, and there are definitely more than 21 trees--maybe he wasn't counting ALL of them for some reason. There might be 21 of them arranged in a way that made sense to him then...or maybe 21 and 15 are something else. I don't know--because I'm not there. I only know that if you are wanting to search for something that matches better, it's going to be a hard go. When I saw that McDonough statue, I knew in my gut we'd found the place--finally. To reject it because we also didn't find argyle socks and a cap is just mind-boggling to me. Oh, and Forrest, lighten up---okay? For crying out loud---did you SEE the 'wink' icon? That means it's a JOKE. Honestly. I was just being facetious.

shecrab wrote:: Huh??? what BETTER place than a park? Forest_blight specifically said this lousy park you are so hung up on, not ALL parks. New Orleans has several excellent candidates which you seem determined to ignore. Ok, so just to sum up your argument here: Your hypothesis is that ALL of the other visual clues in the image are general city references, or references to other parks( seriously?? ), and that it HAS to be Lafayette Park because of the statue. Meanwhile, as far as the verse goes, the digging clues don't match the park, and none of the surrounding area helps us work backward to a strong match with any of the location clues in the verse, either. You don't seem to be hearing me, so I'll say it again: We did not ignore Lafayette Square! We've gone there several times. We saw the statue, before anyone else mentioned it. In person, it is not that close of a match, but nonetheless, we were hoping it was a enough strong connection to work from. (This is in spite of the fact the park doesn't fit the pattern we have seen in the other solutions.) We tried to work backward from every part of the verse and from every part of the image. If you think from the viewpoint of the puzzle creator,and look around from there were LOTS of obvious choices of architectural clues from Lafeyette Square. Yet none of them are good matches for the image. Meanwhile, there ARE plenty of clues in the image besides the figure. I believe they've pretty much all been posted here before. We have : PRESERVATION (Preservation Hall is right next to Armstrong Park) A ball mask with exaggerated features A strange posture for the hand A clockface with IV instead of IIII A distinctively shaped minute hand Second hand pointing to III, which has a dark mark next to it. 2 different types of flowers on the clock 2 arrows pointing to P and N Moon and stars motif within the arch. The mask is covering 6,7,8 (sum to 21). Architectural stylings: A triple arch (match for THOUSANDS of windows in new orleans....yet NONE visible from Lafayette Square Park) What looks like a bridge on the top of the clock, over checkers which are overlaid with blue and wavy as if underwater The design of the sides and bottom of the clock Outline possibilities top of the cuff right side of the sleeve right and left sides of the clock By the way - the harlequin is a strongly associated figure with Mardi Gras. It could just as easily be dismissed as a general new orleans clue as the other clues you so easily dismissed. After looking at all the possible matches for both the verse and the image, this park doesn't have much. No matter HOW much your gut wants it to be the right park, it doesn't matter if there is no good fit for the digging instructions. If you have new suggestions, fine. Let's hear them. But by insisting "THIS IS THE PLACE," you're effectively ruling out the other parks, some of which I have many more strong matches listed for than Lafayette,  (For pages and pages of the thread!) That's not helpful or constructive. It's just frustrating as hell for those of us actually trying to make some progress. And winking doesn't make it less so.

Second hand pointing to III, which has a dark mark next to it. 2 different types of flowers on the clock Still think the 2 flowers... one a narcisus and the other is the girl's dress Second hand pointing to the III ... isn't that the exact direction of the Brick Wall Bench from the center statue if facing the center statue from the McD statue? Can someone PLEASE get us a good full picture of that Brick Wall Bench thing?

Forrest wrote:: I'm just curious - are you and fox consciously trying to run off the only 2 people in the N.O. area who are actively looking and posting here? forest_blight wrote:: I don't think the match to clock-boy is close enough, and the relative lack of other good matches in the area adds to its unlikelihood. The pose is not really the same, and what about clock-boy's hat and the argyle socks one might find on a golfer or cyclist of yore? Forrest wrote:: Your hypothesis is that ALL of the other visual clues in the image are general city references, or references to other parks( seriously?? ), and that it HAS to be Lafayette Park because of the statue. Meanwhile, as far as the verse goes, the digging clues don't match the park, and none of the surrounding area helps us work backward to a strong match with any of the location clues in the verse, either. fox wrote:: Kind of thought that was what we are doing here. At the place where jewels abound Lafayette Square is one of the biggest judging areas of the Mardi Gras Parade.  This is usually held in late February or early March.  When we were there 5 months later, there were still tons of beads adorning the trees all along St Charles Ave.  I think that these are the jewels... Fifteen rows down to the ground In the middle of twenty-one From end to end I believe this to be the exact spot to dig...ala my brick wall theory.  In my opinion {as well as shecrab's} this theory is as solid as a brick wall Only three stand watch Only 3 statues stand in Lafayette park As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours Every Wednesday afternoon at 5pm is Wednesday in the park...filled with music, partying, friends, etc... Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! Sarmiento's quote that got us to N.O. and more specifically, St Charles Hotel...which I have explained earlier Gnomes admire Fays delight Not sure yet.  Possibly referring to LaFAYette himself The namesakes meeting Near this site. Could also be referring to Lafayette or even the St Charles Hotel You see, it isnt like we are stuck on this park simply because of the clock boy...there is plenty in the V that gets us there as well. Forrest wrote:: Meanwhile, there ARE plenty of clues in the image besides the figure. I believe they've pretty much all been posted here before. We have : PRESERVATION (Preservation Hall is right next to Armstrong Park) {most likely a city confirmer} A ball mask with exaggerated features {could possibly just be saying 'Mardi Gras' or also is similar to the marble engravings on a bldg nearby Lafayette Park} A strange posture for the hand {possibly not located or solved yet} A clockface with IV instead of IIII {you've seen clocks w/ IIII? } A distinctively shaped minute hand I believe what we see is both the minute and hour hands on 12...and hands like those are very common on grandfather clocks.  Look at the hour hand here hxxp://69.90.174.250/photos/display_pic ... jpg.  The numbers being pointed to are probably more important then the shape of the hands. Second hand pointing to III, which has a dark mark next to it. yep, see above 2 different types of flowers on the clock you mean the 2 Narcissus? They represent December along with the '12 oclock' and the turquoise 2 arrows pointing to P and N or perhaps the 2 arrows pointing to 'Preservation' Moon and stars motif within the arch. those sure did fit my Moonwalk adjacent to Jackson Sq theory but perhaps that just means Crescent ala Crescent City? The mask is covering 6,7,8 (sum to 21). now this is actually interesting and makes sense.  I don't remember ever reading this.  Do we need to look at the center of the mask?  The nose?  I don't know but I like this little fact a lot. Cormac wrote:: Second hand pointing to the III ... isn't that the exact direction of the Brick Wall Bench from the center statue if facing the center statue from the McD statue? Forrest wrote:: But by insisting "THIS IS THE PLACE," you're effectively ruling out the other parks, some of which I have many more strong matches listed for than Lafayette, Funny, actually quite the opposite.  It sounds like the only 2 people in the N.O. area are trying to run everyone else away from THIS park.  Your little diatribe says that...oh, there are sooooo many more good candidates folks...this isnt the park.  It isnt the park because it doesnt fit, or because it is across from a federal building, or because of this, or because of that...but look at ALL of the other parks in N.O. folks. Kind of like the Chicago Water Tower with windmill arms?  Or perhaps the Cleveland wall that the casque was buried behind depicted with the Lion Head Fountain & the columns?  Or even Lady Liberty wearing a white gown instead of her favored patina...perhaps this is her wedding photo...plus I could have sworn she is holding a torch and tablet instead of the flower. hxxp://travel.webshots.com/photo/255441 ... 2122jCXMmu You're kidding, right?  Almost the entire V fits this park...not City Park, not Armstrong Park, not...ad nauseum.  So, we haven't found the 15 and 21 yet, guess we should pack up our shovels and move on to another park.  As much as you hated the post before, I will quote it again here so as not to have to retype it all: I believe you may be correct. Please, do tell.  And by that I mean, pick your park and LIST off the NUMEROUS matches...not just that say oooh, an Arch at Armstrong and the Moonwalk at Jackson Sq, and a bridge at City Park because then, like shecrab & myself, you would be banking on a park with ONLY ONE likeness as well.

Actually, my "diatribe" says mainly that I do not consider it constructive to conclude that this is the park, since you have very little evidence. You can quote your old post all you like, you never addressed my response to it. Wednesdays in the Park is less than a year old, so no. This park is actually very quiet. No match. There are review stands in MANY locations during mardi gras, and what difference does it make? Why do you think reviewing stands in a location somehow make it the place "where jewels abound" ? Weak as hell. You have no match for the digging instructions. You have no match for Gnomes admire, Fays Delight. If you don't use this to give some context for the "namesakes meeting" line, that line could refer to pretty much ANY place in New Orleans. I mean, honestly. Everything there is named after someone, and most of them were very famous. So again. You have ONE -possible- match in the verse, but it's on the specific end things, thus it is one of the easiest things to match incorrectly, without the context which you cannot provide. You have one -possible- match in the image. No sale.

Forrest wrote:: There are review stands in MANY locations during mardi gras, and what difference does it make? Why do you think reviewing stands in a location somehow make it the place "where jewels abound" ? Weak as hell. Forrest wrote:: I have found something I have not seen anyone post as a possible match for the first line of the verse. In an appendix of the book "The Mystick Krewe Of Comus", the author lists many decades of Mardi Gras Krewe themes and their respective float titles. In 1906, The Krewe of Rex's theme was Utopia. Their 17th float was titled "Where Jewels Abound." Here is a picture of the page: I think this is kind of a long shot, but it's possible that there is a landmark in New Orleans that has a picture of this float displayed, or a painting/mural, that shows the title of the float. I have been unable to locate anything like this in the obvious parks. If anyone has an idea about this, please let me know. before stating that this is "Weak as hell", perhaps you should reread the post you JUST made in the V2 thread. I don't think this is a longshot at all.  A parade float titled "Where Jewels Abound"...nice.  And where would one find such a float...yes in a parade rolling right down St. Charles Ave past Lafayette Sq and Gallier Hall.  Oh, this park and hall are just 2 of thousands of places that the floats pass...I know. "After its dedication in 1853, Gallier Hall remained the city hall for just over a century. Many important events during the Civil War, Reconstruction, and the era of Louisiana governor Huey Long took place at Gallier Hall. Today, it is best known as a place of honor during Mardi Gras. Viewing galleries in front of the hall are reserved for Mardi Gras royalty, and parades on the St. Charles route pause in front them. Marching bands typically perform shows here during the parades, and Gallier Hall is where the King of Rex stops to salute his queen." "...a place of honor during Mardi Gras" "...reserved for Mardi Gras royalty" "...where the King of Rex stops to salute his queen" Sounds much more important then the thousands of other places along the parade route.

Right, because BP expected you to read "where jewels abound" in the verse, have the name of every float for the last 100 years memorized, somehow associate that float with Lafayette Square out of ALL the parks and ALL the parade routes. Makes perfect sense!

Forrest wrote:: No sale. Yes, I can do it too I suppose you knew, upon reading V2 for the very first time and conducting NO research, that "Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night!" referred to the St. Charles Hotel instead of ALL of the other hotels/motels/inns/b&b's etc in ALL of the other cities in ALL of the other states Give me a break. I am still awaiting your park choice with:  something remotely similar to clock boy; 3 statues; and along St. Charles Ave.  You keep circling back to the fact that the wall CAN NOT be the 15 & 21, yet I am SURE you have not nailed down the 15 & 21 in any of your parks, let alone nailed those down along with several other confirmers. I guess it can be summed up by

So, your argument is because at one point we didn't know what the St. Charles quote in the verse refers to, you don't need to use any kind of logic to justify your association between a float name and a specific park?  Seriously?

Forrest wrote:: So, your argument is because at one point we didn't know what the St. Charles quote in the verse refers to, you don't need to use any kind of logic to justify your association between a float name and a specific park?  Seriously? Forrest wrote:: Right, because BP expected you to read "where jewels abound" in the verse, have the name of every float for the last 100 years memorized, somehow associate that float with Lafayette Square out of ALL the parks and ALL the parade routes. Makes perfect sense! On the contrary, that was your logic.  You are the one who said I find your latest find {the float named "Where Jewels Abound"} very exciting.  That information supports my theory even more. Going into this entire hunt, we didn't know anything about the St. Charles Hotel being a place that "Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night!" any more then we knew about a Mardi Gras float name "Where Jewels Abound".  Those were GREAT finds due to diligent research.  I truly do not believe that BP thought that anyone would know that information after the first read over.  It is little tidbits like this sprinkled in with clever plays on words that make The Secret so damn hard to crack...but we are getting there.

Forrest wrote:: Wednesdays in the Park is less than a year old, so no. This park is actually very quiet. No match. Perhaps I jumped the gun a little on this idea...but instead of saying nanny nanny boo boo and emphasizing my mistake with your "This park is actually very quiet. No match."  a little bit more research on my part and I found this... "Lafayette Square has been the site inaugurations, yearly pilgrimages by school bands, and jazz concerts for over 150 years. In 1864, famed bandleader Patrick S. Gilmore presented his legendary concert with a 500 plus member band, a choir of thousands of school children, and a bell ringer." This park is actually very quiet?...  Nope!

No, it wasn't my argument at all. My argument was that knowing the name of a float from 1906 doesn't give you a link to Lafayette Square. We're almost "cheating" by finding a reference to it that I guarantee you BP didn't expect anyone to find (I very much doubt he had any idea that book even existed) -IF- it happens to to end up actually being what the verse refers to in the first place. There are certainly other possibilities. So, in order to follow this lead, we have to find out how we were expected to make the connection. My longshot idea that a painting or photo of the float from 1906 might be displayed somewhere. That would give you a starting point for the next lines. I don't see any possible way you can use that to support Lafayette Square (or anywhere) without knowing how you were supposed to make that connection. Look, if we have a good solution for Lafayette Square, trust me, we'll go dig there. We just don't, and I don't think we ever will. Why? Because I've been there. You guys are talking about us "giving up" and that's infuriating. We already spent a lot of time on it and it just doesn't match. Instead of going in circles, we're trying to find location matches for each part of the verse and look for clues in more likely parks.

fox wrote:: Perhaps I jumped the gun a little on this idea...but instead of saying nanny nanny boo boo and emphasizing my mistake with your "This park is actually very quiet. No match."  a little bit more research on my part and I found this... "Lafayette Square has been the site inaugurations, yearly pilgrimages by school bands, and jazz concerts for over 150 years. In 1864, famed bandleader Patrick S. Gilmore presented his legendary concert with a 500 plus member band, a choir of thousands of school children, and a bell ringer." This park is actually very quiet?...  Nope! And I wouldn't have said that again, but you decided to repost your entire previous post, without responding to anything I said about it. You leave me two options - repeat my previous statement or just give up on trying to communicate with you. Going on the assumption that these lines are meant to be taken literally, and characterize the normal atmosphere of the park, do you think it makes sense to pay more attention to an annual event or the occasional concert vs. the normal amount of traffic and activity in the park on a daily basis? Because normally, it IS a quiet park. There is not much room for any kind of sporting activity. It is not near anything else that's loud. The only thing I've heard there is a homeless guy talking to himself and the sounds of people turning book pages.

Unknown: You don't seem to be hearing me, so I'll say it again: We did not ignore Lafayette Square! Unknown: And I wouldn't have said that again, but you decided to repost your entire previous post, without responding to anything I said about it. You leave me two options - repeat my previous statement or just give up on trying to communicate with you. Au Contraire. I heard you. The whole WORLD heard you. You're awfully hard to ignore when you go about thrashing ideas you don't like. You have no finesse whatsoever. You're not subtle. You're not even polite. Case in point. You know, you have two options too--if you don't agree, you can either shut up or prove someone wrong. You've done neither.

shecrab wrote:: Au Contraire. I heard you. The whole WORLD heard you. You're awfully hard to ignore when you go about thrashing ideas you don't like. You have no finesse whatsoever. You're not subtle. You're not even polite. shecrab wrote:: You know, you have two options too--if you don't agree, you can either shut up or prove someone wrong. You've done neither. What a subtle, polite, and constructive reply you've made! No matter how blunt I've been, at least I haven't made any personal attacks on anyone. I admit that I have no patience for people who won't listen, because I consider that extremely rude in itself. The only way to "prove" that it's not in Lafayette Square is to find it somewhere else. What I have done is provide logical arguments and evidence to back up what I've said, which were promptly ignored, or given a reply of "nuh-uh!" And here we are again - I find not an argument to the logic or content of what I've said, but first, that it wasn't polite enough for you, and second, another "You're wrong" with no argument or reasoning behind it. Would you like to get back to the verse/image now?

So.....,  How 'bout them Phillies?...

Forrest wrote:: The only way to "prove" that it's not in Lafayette Square is to find it somewhere else. What I have done is provide logical arguments and evidence to back up what I've said, which were promptly ignored, or given a reply of "nuh-uh!" fox wrote:: Please, do tell.  And by that I mean, pick your park and LIST off the NUMEROUS matches...not just that say oooh, an Arch at Armstrong and the Moonwalk at Jackson Sq, and a bridge at City Park because then, like shecrab & myself, you would be banking on a park with ONLY ONE likeness as well. Forrest wrote:: I admit that I have no patience for people who won't listen, because I consider that extremely rude in itself. You're funny falcon . You keep saying that but you never show us the evidence.  I have on several occasions {the last time in the following quote} asked for your theories on other parks. This and all other requests have fallen on deaf ears.  I guess you do not like yourself very well: OR you are hastily trying to make more then the 1 connection to the several other parks you have listed.

Unknown: The only way to "prove" that it's not in Lafayette Square is to find it somewhere else. What I have done is provide logical arguments and evidence to back up what I've said, which were promptly ignored, or given a reply of "nuh-uh!" And here we are again - I find not an argument to the logic or content of what I've said, but first, that it wasn't polite enough for you, and second, another "You're wrong" with no argument or reasoning behind it. Unknown: Would you like to get back to the verse/image now? I have never said "you're wrong." I have said that I don't agree with you and have been catigated roundly by you for it. And there is absolutely NO reason for that. Yes, you're correct, you have no patience with anyone who disagrees with you--and you argue in a particularly hostile way. And there's no call for THAT either. We don't have to agree here--but we don't have to SNIPE either. Oh...well, sure, Forrest. Now that you've given the okay. SHHEEEESH!!!  This is a prime example of what I mean.

Current status of the hunt (using Image 7 for visual cues). After finding the Sarmiento quote last year, I was pretty sure that I had the casque in hand, and I spent way too much time wearing out the soles of my shoes and getting run off by NOPD. And, then, for one reason or another, the forum engaged in St. Louis-mania. Some of my friends who helped me case some parks just told me to drop it and revisit it later. 'The other Forrest' managed to pull me back in. I'm working off a handful of assumptions about Preiss' work: 1. There should be 3-4 forms of good visual confirmation in the image for the city 2. There should be at least one non-park landmark referenced 3. There should be at least two visual clues for the items in the vicinity of the site 4. There should be at least two visual clues for items directly visible from the site So, evaluation of visual clues on a per-park basis (ranked by my experience): Armstrong Park - I love the fact that the clock face looks so much like the Armstrong Park gate. Similarly, the Ball Mask evokes a very African-looking face, a la Louis Armstrong or Sidney Bechet. Coupled with the fact that Preservation Hall is what, 4 blocks away from the south entrance of Armstrong? The other Forrest also suggests (as have others) that the top of the clock evokes a bridge, and the background's distortion can be likened to diffraction under water. I don't feel that it's too much a stretch, and there are a couple of bridges in Armstrong that evoke the top of the clock. More of a stretch is the fact that the clock dial evokes the three-bulb streetlamps which can only be found on Rampart Street and in Armstrong Park (nowhere else in the whole city). Most problematic, however, is that a solid 1/4th of Armstrong is off-limits to the public, courtesy of Hurricane Katrina's damage to the Nation Park Service's Jazz Center. There are four very historic and important buildings that are completely inaccessible (ten-foot-tall fences covered with razorwire prevent entry). Perhaps our missing visual confirmers are tucked away there. City Park - The tulip/narcissus definitely does look like the one in Storyland, and there are two iconic bridges in the lower half of City Park that evoke the top of the clock. There is also some architectural detailing at the corners of the Peristyle that evokes a detail on the wood/body of the clock. There are two giant problems with City Park, the first being that it's been through five or so major remodels in the past 25 years, with new things being added almost continuously (or destroyed, as most recently, the Irby Pool disappeared from existence). The second being that each remodel puts up new fences and gates around attractions, making it increasingly difficult to get in there. Storyland - Fenced off. Botanical Garden - Fenced off. Playland - Fenced off. Hyams Fountain - Fenced off. Only accessible during the day, each one separate from the other, and each one requires separate admission. Audubon Park - No visual confirmers here, The Other Forrest and I have walked every inch of this park north of Magazine Street. We're going to try south of Magazine Street soon. Lafayette Square - There is the boy who does bear more than a passing resemblance to the Harlequin, there's some cuteness with the verse as well. Unfortunately, beyond the McDonogh statue, I just can't seem to find anything else in the square that matches. Roughly 1/5 of the buildings surrounding the square were have been built post-1982, which makes things quite a bit trickier as well. And, there's my general feeling that Preiss liked to bury stuff where he could sort of 'hide' from the general public and go relatively unnoticed while he dug - perhaps Egbert can attest to this. If I could get more visual confirmation elsewhere in the square from the image (not just the verse), I'd be more inclined to give the 'okay' on it. Coliseum Square - I enjoy the potential matches to the verse, but nothing in the image. Harlequin Park - A long shot, but absolutely no matches. Mardi Gras Fountain - No visual matches at all.

The Giant Squid wrote:: Current status of the hunt (using Image 7 for visual cues). And, there's my general feeling that Preiss liked to bury stuff where he could sort of 'hide' from the general public and go relatively unnoticed while he dug Thanks for this Very accurate/succinct summary of the New Orleans hunt. Everything you said makes sense to me. The problems with current access to areas, cannot be considered detrimental to possible locations, because BP would not have had those problems. So for the purpose of the hunt locations would have to be considered disregarding current fencing... or more importantly, it seems he wasnt burying things where the diggers would be noticed or bothered by authorities, (except in one specific case where he indicated you need to get permission to dig things out.)

Thanks, Squid. I appreciate your summary, also. I like how it adds in everything without denying connections or matches. I dont' know if I agree with your list of assumptions, but I don't DISagree with them either--so if they turn out to be accurate in other solutions, then agreement isn't the issue anyway. I'm convinced that this thing is very close to Lafayette Square if not IN it. For one, thinking logically, it's big enough. And there are enough trees and other structures. And there are 3 statues (only 3 stand watch), one of which has that match with the clock boy. Other things in the verse also point this way for me. I tend to see the mask as more an allusion to the music and jazz, for which the city is famous, than an actual "marker" of some sort--as some do. As for the Armstrong park matches: When I saw this P., I immediately thought "Armstrong Park" even though I've never even been to NO.  To me, that would be enough of a reason not to go with Armstrong as the location--because it's almost as much of an iconic image of the city as the Mardi Gras parade is. And as someone has pointed out, it might not even BE in a park--but the buildings around Lafayette are not conducive to burial (but not because of their age, I wouldn't think--more because this is a downtown street. After all, Gallier Hall was definitely there in 1981.) I think that the streetcar line may yield some other places. If the whole thing is pointing to the St. Charles connection-- hotel, streetcar, Sarmeinto quote, actual street and the Park ON that street --then perhaps we need to explore the line itself. Explore some other stops maybe?

k, i'm still thinking about the "passing fancies" , and thinking more of the museums, because this is where they are, especially contemporary art....or elf nouveau  (p. 108 ) , and that love sculpture being contemporary art and being in the picture in the book. hxxp://www.neworleanspast.com/art/id102.html

I concur with the others Squid...nicely summed up.  It is refreshing that you say "There is the boy who does bear more than a passing resemblance to the Harlequin, there's some cuteness with the verse as well."  Your partner in crime has been saying more and more that there is only a 'slight' resemblence.  Personally, I think that the McD statue is IT. Thanks again for a good summary...

Giant Squid and forrest, i'm glad you're listening to us wanted to mention, because you said you liked coliseum square, that i found that terpsichore street goes along the square, and terpsichore's name means "delight"........... hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terpsichore i was kindof going toward the u.s. mint because of "gnomes admire"...........gnomes and money go together, and it is a museum now, thought that was pretty interesting, but gonna check more into coliseum square now.

Slappy, that was the main reason for checking out Coliseum. Terpsichore means "delight in dance" and dance is a common thing to associate with fairies. However, it's a pretty small park, and we didn't find any image matches.

thanks forrest, i thought it interesting too, that camp street is on the other side of coliseum square, BP could have had a double meaning to "who build palaces to shelter their heads for a night".......camping...... i'm so glad you two are there and hopefully something we say will give you two an "aha" moment. i'm sure you've seen these lanterns there, but the picture is too dark for me to see, is the middle part shaped at all like our clock? hxxp://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image ... nterns.jpg it sure looks like stars on the sidewalk in front of the children's museum on 420 julia street, and with the dark blue doors, it reminds me of the image.

hxxp://www.fidnet.com/~debbil/TheSecret.html This building is a block away from Jackson Sq. towards Lafayette Sq. What caught my eye was how bold this banister is compared to most others. Then i found this: "Courtyard of the Vine, 614 Chartres Street. Turning back into Chartres Street, one finds, near the corner of Wilkinson, an old building once owned by John McDonogh. It is not the house, however, that attracts the visitor, but the great, twisted wistaria vine growing in the courtyard at the rear of the building. The court is entered through a narrow passageway, the gates being open at all times. " from this site: hxxp://www.archive.org/stream/neworlean ... s_djvu.txt Dont know if it means anything but the courtyard is visible from google earth.

bclews wrote:: I keep returning (in my mind) to Storyland in City Park.  I recently found this image which combines 3 pieces of information -- hxxp://www.agilitynut.com/06/3/story3.jpg I was just digging back through this thread and re-read this post from bclews: I took the image from the link he posted, and then pasted in (and flipped them horizontally to line them up better) the narcissus flowers from Image 7 to get this: I think they match quite well (notice the petals closest to the stems).  I had been planning to go to N.O. in January (for other reasons, and to check out Story Land), but that fell through.  Maybe I'll be able to make it in the spring.

xlurker wrote:: hxxp://www.fidnet.com/~debbil/TheSecret.html This building is a block away from Jackson Sq. towards Lafayette Sq. What caught my eye was how bold this banister is compared to most others. Then i found this: "Courtyard of the Vine, 614 Chartres Street. Turning back into Chartres Street, one finds, near the corner of Wilkinson, an old building once owned by John McDonogh. It is not the house, however, that attracts the visitor, but the great, twisted wistaria vine growing in the courtyard at the rear of the building. The court is entered through a narrow passageway, the gates being open at all times. " from this site: hxxp://www.archive.org/stream/neworlean ... s_djvu.txt Dont know if it means anything but the courtyard is visible from google earth. Beautiful!!!!!

You can't see much from street view. I wonder what is in there.

Jambone, don't forget the sleeve in P7 that seem like miss muffet's dress, even same color... [ mask seems like a shovel too ] so... obvious

hxxp://www.fidnet.com/~debbil/TheSecret.html (top pic) I know.. too much time on my hands....

see the hat, face and arrow, the hand not so much, lines that might be fingers, but cant make out a hand per se... the other stuff is plain though especially the arrow. if there is a character in story town that matches this I would say definitely.

Ok... I kinda see that... But if you look to the lighter square to the left of that face ... with a magnifying glass I think I can make 1907  .... it seems almost every light block has something hidden in it... of course it could just be my mind wanting to find patterns I have a feeling though... that the picture viewed with only your eyes and the right selection of verse will lead to a more simplified solution. Remember.. BP didn't expect it to last this long... I start wondering if people (myself especially) aren't overthinking things.. and can't see the forrest for the trees.

I'm with you Cormac.  Once again, I must state that I am not too keen on the idea of trying to see things in the pixels {lack of better word}.  I may; however, be swayed if someone cares to go crosseyed scouring the P's for the 2 found treasures and find something "Definitive" in the pixels around the casque burial site.  Until then, I think we are trying tooooo hard to find images that probably weren't even meant to be included in these puzzles.

Then there's P6. I think whatever clue(s) we're missing in that one is probably a "pixel hunt". But I agree, I don't think that he would have hidded clues that tiny into the Ps. It just doesn't make sense, given how "easily" the other two casques were found without any such clues. I think he would have stuck to a general formula. Once again, though, P6 doesn't seem to quite stick to the standard formula either... SELOY...

Are we sure that the boy is a Harlequin?  Perhaps we should look at it more closely.

do you have another suggestion?

I watched "The Curious Case of Benjamin Button" last night, which takes place mainly in New Orleans. To my delight, one scene was filmed at the Peristyle in City Park. I recognized it right off because of this group.

wanted to mention here that on p. 168 The Night Mayor, Regional, BP mentions jm barrie, who wrote peter pan.  "if enough people believe in them they can come true"......he's talking about fairies but that line makes me think of tinkerbelle, i don't remember seeing her in boat with peter pan and captain hook.  but i always liked the shape of captain hook's ship: hxxp://flickr.com/photos/gjcharlet/5069 ... otostream/ and he also mentions "crazy, burning eyes".....the wolf? dragon?....... i'm thinking our harlequin guy is a "passing fancy" (French) from page 108, shows a bottle of perrier which comes from France, and this is our french picture.

Shecrab-- I do believe it resembles a jockey.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I do believe that Trohn has gotten to johann...

fox wrote:: Ladies and Gentlemen, I do believe that Trohn has gotten to johann... It is only a matter of time - we all lose sanity.

Hello all. I've been away for a while and must add my findings. I believe the casque is in Congo Square. First, the 1929 numbers correspond with the building of the Municipal Auditorium. lLouis Armstrong died in 1971 and Armstrong park was dedicated to him in the late 1970's. Preservation theme ties in. Municipal Auditorium was home to many concerts and is where Rex And Comus meet on Mardi Gras day. Balls are held there and perhaps this is where jewels abound. If that is the correct verse. The mask is definately a likeness of Louis Armstrong. It obscures the 6,7,and 8 on the clock. Armstrong Park is on the 6,7,and 800 block of Rampart st. I know that in the late 70's Louis Armstrong was not as popular as today and perhaps Byron was commemorating him in this image. I'll have to go back and look up my other findings but after much research and being from New Orleans this fits better for me than others. Lafitte

Lafitte wrote:: It obscures the 6,7,and 8 on the clock. Armstrong Park is on the 6,7,and 800 block of Rampart st. Hmm, more like 7, 8, and 900, no?

Interesting ideas Lafitte....but...that looks like a good 3-5 miles from Lafayette Square and not even in a straight shot.  If the casque is in Armstrong Park {which it very well could be} then our starting point has to be Lafayette Sq.  The statue there is just toooooo much of a match to our 'clock boy'.  Can we reverse engineer the V & P to find a route to Armstrong Park?

I don't agree that the clock boy is our flying waiter. This piece has been bugging me for a while. It reminds me of something from my childhood but I don't know what! I am getting a general consensus that we no longer are thinking that verse 7 pertains?

fox wrote:: Interesting ideas Lafitte....but...that looks like a good 3-5 miles from Lafayette Square and not even in a straight shot.  If the casque is in Armstrong Park {which it very well could be} then our starting point has to be Lafayette Sq.  The statue there is just toooooo much of a match to our 'clock boy'. Remember none of the others were straight shots, they were actually straight shots then you hang a left to get to the treasure ground. So start at the statue, go straight down st charles. turns into royal but keep going to St Peters turn Left (pass that silly little preservation hall) and the street deadends into the southern corner of Congo square and Louis Armstrong park. Anyway Lafitte I agree with you, I always believed it was there. Always willing to chase down another idea, but I always come back to congo square.

Lafitte wrote:: I am getting a general consensus that we no longer are thinking that verse 7 pertains? well if you want consensus, I always had a hard time with v7 here. But thats cause I think it goes in Montreal

So which verse fits congo square?

Lafitte wrote:: I don't agree that the clock boy is our flying waiter. Who is this flying waiter you refer to?  I was talking about this statue in Lafayette Square: and here he is from almost the exactly correct angle...back arched, one arm extended before himself while the other is extended backwards hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/8126909@N0 ... 012/  (or even here) hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/gymnasia/2342711849/ I still don't understand how people are arguing that this is not our 'clock boy'.  If Anyone out there can find another statue anywhere, whether in the USA or not, with as close a resemblence as this one does to our 'clock boy' I may be swayed.  Until then, I feel this IS our 'clock boy'.

Could someone with the computer know how once again do a side by side comparison of 'clock boy' and this statue (possibly from this site since it is fairly close to the correct angle hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/gymnasia/2342710683/ ). . . or perhaps this one: Yes, I understand that 'clock boy is extending his right arm while statue is extending his left but I think looking at silhouettes is very convincing.  Thanks in advance...

wilhouse wrote:: im wilhouse's son and everytime i see this picture the first thing i see is a square that is turned to the left, this block is 2 blocks up from the griffin or dragons head and 1 block left not sure what this means but it is just what i saw and no one else saw it Just for $#!t$ and giggles, I am rereading ALL the posts in this thread.  Long long ago was this post: Now, we all know that a knight's (our horse head) move in chess is 2 squares then 1 over....or 2 over and 1 up.  Either way, could this part of the P just be trying to tell us something "knight"?

cw0909 wrote:: compared it seems the right and left arm are wrong, this may have been deliberate, i think bp has turned and changed the look of some objects, in other pics too fox i like the chess knight idea from september-08 full size hxxp://community.webshots.com/photo/ful ... 2122jCXMmu

The flying waiter I am referring to is the figure in the image that you have linked to the boy on McDonogh's statue. I do see why y'all got excited over this. As I look back over my notes I remember that I thought Lafayette square was a contender. If verse 7 is N.O. than education would pertain to this statue. Verse 2 never struck me as being the one to use. Gnomes admire, fays delight I thought meant opal and torquoise. Gallier hall seems to be a stretch as the place where jewels abound. A city that has streets named after jewels seemed to be more likely to me.  The most frustrating aspect of this hunt is how we all seem to be picking apart the semantics of each part instead of being able to agree on a spot and then apply a verse. Sigh... I don't think Byron meant for it to be so difficult! I won't yet rule out Lafayette square but I will rule out verse 2. Please don't attack me if you disagree, as we all are trying to fit it all together. Does anyone have an opinion about the #19 on the upper left hand corner of the clock?

Welcome back Lafitte!  i hope all are doing better down in the Crescent City. a while back, FB posted a pic of a guy playing chess in a park.  Were they real chess tables from before 82' and are they still there?  Two blocks up and one block left?  wouldn't that be nice???

Please look up the Algiers courthouse. The clock very closely resembles our image. i can't find ant pix of the #'s, is anyone in N.O.?

The clock on the Algiers courthouse looks NOTHING like our P7 clock.

maltedfalcon wrote:: If the casque is in Armstrong Park {which it very well could be} then our starting point has to be Lafayette Sq.  The statue there is just toooooo much of a match to our 'clock boy'. Remember none of the others were straight shots, they were actually straight shots then you hang a left to get to the treasure ground. So start at the statue, go straight down st charles. turns into royal but keep going to St Peters turn Left (pass that silly little preservation hall) and the street deadends into the southern corner of Congo square and Louis Armstrong park. Anyway Lafitte I agree with you, I always believed it was there. Always willing to chase down another idea, but I always come back to congo square. [/quote] Ok... using the same logic... but working with the idea that we (reading english) tend to work from left to right and/or top to bottom... In this case top to bottom... the word Preservation on the clock would be the starting point and is above our little man the endpoint... as you said go straight down st charles (which starts off as royal)... eventually you turn left into lafayette Sq.

Thank you for the clock photo fox. And for your emphatic opinion. I am referring to the quadrants around the clock. This does resemble our image TO ME. Just as you are convinced the boy on statue is our figure on said image. I'm still wondering if anyone has come up with an idea for the #19. I welcome all ideas, no matter how ridiculous they may seem to others. thank you, Lafitte

Cormac wrote:: Ok... using the same logic... but working with the idea that we (reading english) tend to work from left to right and/or top to bottom... In this case top to bottom... the word Preservation on the clock would be the starting point and is above our little man the endpoint... as you said go straight down st charles (which starts off as royal)... eventually you turn left into lafayette Sq. I would aggree with you if the Iconic images were always in the same spot on the picture, but they are not. The cleveland pix upper left...  the chicago pix lower middle right... so there  is no way of just looking at the picture in order to decided which way to go...

lafitte, i think the 19 and 29 are the latitude and longitude for new orleans.......it should be 91, backwards, like it was in the solved pics, i think. i know you don't like verse 2 for this, but that line "here is a sovereign people who build palaces to shelter their heads for a night!" comes from the book Abroad in America.... [i][i][i] [/i][/i][/i]....talking about the st. charles hotel in new orleans. it's hard to believe that verse doesn't go to new orleans.

Thanks. I always thought verse 2 went with san fran. I thought it interesting that 1929 is the year the Municipal Auditorium was built. This is in Armstrong park. Verse 2 put me in Alta park. Start at the old Jewel tower, go 15 rows down, or blocks, and you are in alta park. All speculation at this point but what can we do without a confirmer?

Lafitte wrote:: All speculation at this point but what can we do without a confirmer? I say we head on down to Lafayette Square.

fox wrote:: I say we head on down to Lafayette Square.   :P [/quote] I seriously agree, though I can not travel any time soon. My first born is only 2 weeks old... too young for us to travel to NewO from WV. (born on the 15th(ides of march), a boy... Dillon Harris McGarrah, 9lbs, 20 1/4 inches) Chad McGarrah  (cormac)

Hey, Congratulations Chad.  Welcome to fatherhood!  It is one of the most rewarding times ever.  but....2 weeks old isn't too young to start hunting for treasure.  Pack the wee one in a car seat, give him a shovel and let the tyke dig!

Congrats!!!! How 'bout a pic?

Congratulations Chad, a second generation treasure hunter i was born in oak hill, Fayette County wv still go back every couple yr, for visits to family, and always take my metal detectors, plenty of treasure to dig there

OK...ok.... back to the topic...

Sorry....... couldn't resist

a real treasure! congratulations!

Cormac wrote:: OK...ok.... back to the topic... Nice!  One comment however...it looks like you may need a manicure Chad, and that purple blouse does not work on you

Congrats!!!!! Beautiful baby... And great photoshopping too.

NOW I know who that mask reminds me of!! Nice baby. Really. Very nice. You make nice babies.

Place de France Statue The hand holding the mask pole, looks like the hand holding the flag pole on the Place de France statue. hxxp://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image.aspx?f=1&guid=1f1332c6-cc86-4876-a912-1790ee95da32&gid=3

Could this be our scary creature? hxxp://www.shadow-puppets.com/shadow-puppet-12.html Maybe we are supposed to do something with light.

If I can obtain permission, I will be digging for this one in early July when I am in the NO area. I've already sent a few emails but have not had a response. But does anyone have any suggestions on the best approach for obtaining permission to dig in one of the parks in New Orleans? kibitz

It depends where you are digging.

Be sneaky! be careful and let us know how it goes ok?

or do what bp did, dress as a maintenance guy, luck to ya

if you want to ask permission, find the park director. there's probably a sign somewhere (around where the name of the park is) that lists names and phone numbers. wilhouse

Might have to be sneaky. Finding people in NO is like pulling teeth. Thanks for the advice. Will probably be digging second week in July if we can. I will keep you up to date.

Where are your dig plans focused?

Cormac wrote:: Where are your dig plans focused? Whether I'm right or whether it's just another crazy theory, I promise to tell you everything I know (or think I know) after my trip (around July 21). Until then I'm going to keep that to myself. kibitz

why? do you think someone's going to fly out and try to beat you to it? wouldn't you rather like some people to bounce your ideas of off, and try to help  you in case there's something you missed? wilhouse

or maybe tell you how to get permission for certain specific spots before you go...

Kibitz, I urge you to seek advice from as many people here as you can regarding digging in N.O. The people on this forum are strong willed and opinionated yet supportive and intelligent. The police dept. in N.O. is very stressed and still on edge. Not to mention filled with rookies that haven't learned how to reason with people. If you choose to dig in a location that would only result in arrest then you must be prepared.We only wish to share our theories with you in order to avoid this very realistic possibility. Giving us the name of the park doesn't reveal the exact spot that you will be digging in. But it would reveal the conclusion you have come to and we would further assist in your efforts. You are aware that if you find a casque the thrill of that alone is the reward? There is no further redemtion process due the Byrons passing. Please use the brains on this forum to bounce off of. UI assure you that no-one is going to race you to the spot and get the treasure. If you still insist on keeping your ideas to yourself at least purchase a metal rod that can be pushed into the area you feel is correct and see if you hit anything. This might avoid unnecessary digging in a potentionally dangerous area. Good luck and bring bail money.

I would have to agree with others on this board as well.  My wife, son & I did a little scouting possible sites in the Crescent City not too long ago.  There are some very beautiful parks indeed.  I still just don't understand it when newer folks come on here asking for advice and not sharing their ideas.  I'm sure you have seen these boards are FULL of ideas and theories about possible locations.  I don't think you have to worry about anyone trying to beat you to the punch though...if anything, other hunters may want to join you and share the workload.  I wish you the best of luck when the dig time arrives....let's unearth #3!

i know you had your trip planed, and without the casque in mind at least i read,you, that way, please do as others are asking, we can as a whole  assist you, in a depth you could not do alone, and maybe it could be found, which i feel, as im sure others do too, is the reward after 20+ years and BPs death,  to unearth this thing im sure that is why he left them buried, so they could be found anyway good luck to you

kibitz wrote:: Whether I'm right or whether it's just another crazy theory, I promise to tell you everything I know (or think I know) after my trip (around July 21). Until then I'm going to keep that to myself. I've found that when it turns out to be "just another crazy theory", people rarely take the time to detail their thought process afterwards.

Fox, congratulations on 1700 posts.  I'm only 1000 or so behind you! wilhouse

Weeeeee... Thanks for pointing that out Wilhouse, I would have never noticed. Just start rambling and you could make up those 1000 in no time.  Here is a little inspiration for you:

Yay. At least THIS hunt makes sense.

kibitz did u get a chance to look around new orleans???  how'd it go? i'm still stuck on storyland.....the flowers, the stick, the puffed sleeves are all there. but, i'm thinking it could be on the outside of the gates because of that clock looking so much like a "lock" near a sign like this for "afternoon hours": hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/rogie_la/2070907577/ and of course "only three stand watch": hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/rogie_la/2 ... otostream/ "namesakes meeting near this site"  could just mean "storyland" as gnomes and fairies are all in fairy tales i just had a thought because of that quote right near the end of the verse,  "here is a sovereign......"  from the book Abroad in America: Visitors to a new nation[i] [/i] instead of that referencing the st. charles hotel or new orleans, maybe it's just referencing the fair people themselves..........the fairies and gnomes, they immigrated too......  ;D or of course, it could still mean a castle, or a mushroom but then, what are the chances before the internet of anyone having heard of that book? if it's just referencing a hotel, or "room for a night",  plenty of those in fairy tales........hansel and gretel's house, the 3 little pigs, snow white, goldilocks, little red riding hood, peter pan....etc.

Didn't kibitz say around the 21st? Still going?

oops, my bad! just anxious for someone to dig! good to see you're still around cormac

Am still here... just on lockdown until we can afford to start traveling again. Who knew a baby would be so expensive. Still glad to help research.

Yikes. Just for the record I'm not the newb at this type of thing one or more seem to think I am. At any rate I've posted my solution as promised (in another thread) as well as the results of my search. Enjoy! Thanks, kibitz.

Kibitz, that was an excellent conclusion you have drawn.  I think there is a pattern that BP used with these verses and you have hit on it nicely.  It would be real nice if we could tie this in with Maltedfalcon's pattern starting with the iconic image starting point.  maybe you already have...

maltedfalcon wrote:: I absolutely agree that the picture indicates New Orleans and specifically Armstrong park. There is the minor issue with the route to the treasure ground. in Chicago it followed a straight road from the water tower(shown in the picture) several miles until it got to the treasure ground then turned left twice to the final area. In Cleveland it started at the building downtown (shown in the picture) went straight several miles to the parks then turned left and left into the final area. Here preservation hall is only blocks away from armstrong park, but its on the wrong street, if Preservation Hall was on St Ann's it would be a straight shot through the arch, then left to your final spot. but you have to go down st peters to rampart turn right then turn left to go through the arch. Unknown: next in Chicago the treasure was located in the back corner in a very unobtrusive location In cleveland the treasure was located hidden behind a wall Unknown: I could get nitpicky on some other things, but Your solution has 1 thing that 90% of all the other solutions posted doesnt have. A specific place to dig. Ok... the reason it doesn't follow the pattern is that it is heading the wrong direction. The clues that lead to thoughts of Armstrong park all simply say "New Orleans" Malty's direction of start here go a long way then turn left better supports LaFayette Square and IS on the right street. Preservation Hall is basically on the corner of Royal which becomes St Charles when it crosses Canal st. Then of course you turn left into the square (park). Lafayette Square has a small wall that could easily help obscure and if you have turned left into the square from St Charles... (noting that the Square's shape is represented in the image) you would see this wall is in the exact location of the end of the Second Hand on the image's clock Mentioned in previous posts are the instructions on how to count the bricks and mortars together to show you where beside the wall to dig. Who is heading to NO Next?

My wife asked yesterday how long a drive it would be to New Orleans from our home in West Virginia. With a great big smile I gave her a rough guess, based on a drive I made years ago to town in southern Mississippi. Once she got the answer... that idea was quickly gone... so was the smile.

So, any anybody been workin' this Image or Verse lately? Any one still stuck on V2 being the link? ...I've scoured the internet for pictures of Storyland Park lately in relatioin to the Verse and have found that the park seems to have a fence surrounding it. I can't get any good overhead images though of just how the fence envelopes it (Storyland Park exclusively). The arrows on the clock could represent such a fence "From end to end" with "twenty-one" being the number of fencing sections. From all the photos that show a fence in Storyland park, there are 15 posts within each section - "Fifteen rows down to the ground." In the middle of those sections, exacltly between sections 10 and 11 and post 7 and 8, could be a casque. Any thoughts? I've also been able to clearly count the fencing at Armstrong Park (14 posts) and LaFayette Square (16 posts), neither of which fit the criteria for even acknowledging section amounts. Strange to me still, is the fact that "only three stand watch" relates so closely to LayFayette Square, and the clock face has two interior black squares in line with the center of the clock hands... marking the placement of the three statues? The exterior has circle connected to the arrow only has one filled-black square, and it's aligned with the two interior and the clock center... in a line right through the III. ------------- Any body here still? Any thoughts?

So, any anybody been workin' this Image or Verse lately? Any one still stuck on V2 being the link? ...I've scoured the internet for pictures of Storyland Park lately in relatioin to the Verse and have found that the park seems to have a fence surrounding it. I can't get any good overhead images though of just how the fence envelopes it (Storyland Park exclusively). The arrows on the clock could represent such a fence "From end to end" with "twenty-one" being the number of fencing sections. From all the photos that show a fence in Storyland park, there are 15 posts within each section - "Fifteen rows down to the ground." In the middle of those sections, exacltly between sections 10 and 11 and post 7 and 8, could be a casque. Any thoughts? I've also been able to clearly count the fencing at Armstrong Park (14 posts) and LaFayette Square (16 posts), neither of which fit the criteria for even acknowledging section amounts. Strange to me still, is the fact that "only three stand watch" relates so closely to LayFayette Square, and the clock face has two interior black squares in line with the center of the clock hands... marking the placement of the three statues? The exterior has circle connected to the arrow only has one filled-black square, and it's aligned with the two interior and the clock center... in a line right through the III. ------------- Any body here still? Any thoughts?

Everyone here knows my thoughts on this casque If not...just look at Cormac's avatar.

I'm with Fox and Cormac here. I think the thing was probably buried in Lafayette, not in Storyland.

shecrab wrote:: I'm with Fox and Cormac here. I think the thing was probably buried in Lafayette, not in Storyland. "was"? Me thinketh it is still there........[glow=red,2,300]somewhere...[/glow]

Yeah....was. I doubt we'll ever find anything in Nola. As the song says, "they're tryin' to wash us away.."  I think they (Katrina, etc.) already did. Sadly.

I still believe.  I just can't get down there to dig.

Still siding with the Cormac here.  I have faith that it is still there, 2 to 3 ft under ground in L Sq.

Great thread. Slowly working through these. The namesakes meeting Near this site ...reminded me that: "Basin Street is the street where the elite always meet". Basin Street Blues , recorded by Louis Armstrong in 1929 (the date on the clock). Runs into Louis Armstrong Park. There seem to be different versions of the lyrics floating around; one mentions the St Louis Cemetary. hxxp://www.e-chords.com/chords/louis-ar ... reet-blues hxxp://www.lyricsbay.com/basin_street_b ... trong.html In the middle of twenty-one ...on the clock...? The letter V...? Fifteen rows down to the ground ...perhaps referring to rows on the chequered design. * * * * * I don’t trust the Field Guide as a reliable source of information, but it’s usually possible to find something with a visual connection to an image which can spark off some ideas. I was wondering about playing cards, which led me to page 112 which mentions slam-dunking. (This entry also talks about 1929, the Mississippi, and death by drowning, a-la Narcissus. The demon bears a faint resemblance to the mask.) I think of the shapes in the starry region at the top of the clock as n(ew) and o(rleans). Could the “n” with the “moon” and “Peter Pan” suggest a basketball connection…? (a net and ball viewed from above, with a slam-dunker. Maybe got to work out where clock-boy put the ball or something. The position could be calculated by laying out the location like a basketball court (eg 15m wide). Or as a chessboard, like the statue in Dali's Narcissus. I like the observation that one of Louis Armstrong’s nicknames was “Dipper”. Could refer to the Big Dipper , or Plough. The “bike-like” object in the centre of the clockface might also hint at a plough, or digging. Lafayette Square looks like a pretty good spot. I was pleased to see Benjamin Franklin there, since he seems to crop up in other parts of the book. In the Field Guide, for instance, I think he's represented by the "Postmonster General", having been Postmaster General. The "Whereabouts" guide on 221/222 locates him in Louisiana - the only entry for that state. Perhaps this is why. I was also reading up on The Grand Lafayette , a famous illusionist. (Mask? I'm interested in that his "signature act" was The Lion's Bride, which he died in the middle of - reminds me of the Lion mask.) I like: 1911 RIP, the year Lafayette died. The tricky bit is finding the X... (If you've read my ramblings on image 11, y'all are going to start thinking I'm morbid.  ;) )

shecrab wrote:: Yeah....was. I doubt we'll ever find anything in Nola. As the song says, "they're tryin' to wash us away.."  I think they (Katrina, etc.) already did. Sadly. We are NOT WASHED AWAY! Lafayette Square is still there and a casque is buried.  Armstrong Park seemed the location to me however Ray Nagin is his crappy crookedness destroyed the park. The Louis Armstrong statue is damaged and got moved to a different location in the park. New walkways were installed that are also sub par and the park now floods. I would be leery of digging in Lafayette square because of Homeland security. The post office is right across the street and there are no hidden spots to dig. I've been on Tweleve working on Cowboy so I haven't been giving this one too much attention lately. Anyone going to N.O. pm me and we'll meet up!

Warning: random brainstorming ahead... I can see there are just too many clues for this image. I'm still trying to catch up with all the findings at the mo. I like the Lafayette Square stuff, Armstrong Park is another natural contender, and I can see the Jackson stuff is also interesting. I'm tending to think there might be some mathematics and measuring to do in solving this puzzle, with any or all these places potentially involved as landmarks. The centre of the dial to the top of the clock along the ornate needle seems very close to 1 inch. In the middle of twenty-one From end to end (twenty-one / blackjack / jackson) The bottom of the stick up to the lower lip of the mask is 2 inches. Gnomes were apparently invented by Paracelsus, and were "two spans high". hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnome This lip / crescent is also about "fifteen rows down". (I say "about" because the cut-off at the top of the page makes it ambiguous.) Other random thoughts: The circular arrow indicates 10/12ths of the distance around the dial. The clock hands are in the shape of an "L" (twelfth letter), and the vertical hand passes through 12. I'm also interested in how the Narcissus myth might come into this. I'm thinking of clock-boy as Narcissus, as he's staring at one, as in the myth. The Great Lafayette was pals with Houdini, who "sent a floral representation of Beauty [Lafayette's dog] to the funeral". hxxp://members.fortunecity.com/gillonj/ ... lafayette/ So that's two stories about how beauty became a flower. Lafayette was obsessed with this dog. Beauty might be the "dragon square". If clock-boy is Narcissus/La fay ette, Armstr ong could be the gno me. I also wondered about turquoise / turk wise / mechanical turk . In the Wizard of Oz, the Scarecrow (bloke on a stick) lacked a brain, and had his head stuffed with pins and needles and straw. The Field Guide entry for "Tinkerbell" (compare the bell on P179 to the Narcissus - also trumpet bell / Peter Pan), explains that they "imbue every piece of hardware with a personality and reduce humankind to the condition of machines". This seems to fit with the idea of the mask and the clock. (I did warn you about this post...) Yay, I just noticed The Mechanical Turk beat Benjamin Franklin. I'm determined to bring that dude into everything.  !! Y'know...a clockwork mechanism with a human face that's famous for moving a knight around the board in a chess puzzle called "the knight's tour"...maybe it's not such a big stretch after all. Another point for equestrian Jackson ...? Then again, it could just be a ridiculously complicated clue for turkuoise...

Lafitte wrote:: There is a triangular green space on Decatur. Sorry to say that if anything is buried there it has been covered by a huge statue of Bienville. This is near the riverboat docking area. This place looks very interesting. Check it out. The letters J B appear either side of the pointer, which also divides the 12 into 10 (J) and 2 (B). It's dedicated to J ean- B aptiste, "founder of New Orleans". hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Bapti ... _Bienville hxxp://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=23885 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Here's the theory. Moon and St Louis clues point to J ackson Square and the mask. Sarmiento and statue clues point to L afayette Square and the clock-face. Between J and L is K Fifteen rows down to the ground 1 up, 5 along on a chessboard - the King. In the middle of twenty-one First 21 letters: abcdefghij K lmnopqrstu also: blac K jack In between Jackson and Lafayette geographically, you have Dec antur - December, the month for the image. And on Decantur Street, we find this monument where "three stand watch". "The Bienville Monument, by Angela Gregory, was dedicated on April 24, 1955. The bronze sculpture depicts Pierre Le Moyne d'Iberville, in colonial dress flanked by a seated male Indian and a standing male, Father Athanase, a Recollect monk." Here's a snap from Google Street View. It's the meeting place, or middle point, when the mask and the clock-face combine to create the man-machine, the mechanical turk. (Horse in Jackson = Knight's Tour. Franklin in Lafayette = famous opponent). It's 11-o-clock, where Narcissus gazes at his reflection in the flower. (Am I getting carried away now...?  ;)) The Turk awaits your move.

White Rabbit, It;s Decatur st. Not decantur. And this triange is not hidden at all. There is no way one could dig without anyone seeing you.I don't remember exactly when this statue was installed, but I do think it was after the casque was buried. Glad to have another voice here, keep working!

Hi Lafitte - Thanks for the comments. Statue dates from 1955. May not be diggable, but I think it's a landmark of some kind. Here's a map showing these locations. Jackson & Lafayette are connected with a straight line down Decatur, with a circle round Bienville. Continuing up Decatur past Jackson, you get to the Joan of Arc monument...(St Catherine connection...?) Flag and fingernails/pole...? Maybe if you keep going in one direction, you eventually hit something useful...

lafitte, i'm glad there's a hunter in NO!!  was everything changed at Armstrong Park?  could you show us where they moved the statue, and from where? whiterabbit, r u close to any of the likely sites?  are u a hunter?  once u find  a spot are you gonna go dig? i

slappybuns wrote:: whiterabbit, r u close to any of the likely sites?  are u a hunter?  once u find  a spot are you gonna go dig? (No, I'm in the UK...so if I ever do find anything, I'll be pestering Lafitte to go check it out... )

The Joan of Arc statue was originally between Canal and Poydras st. It's present location was installed way after the casque was buried. I've always thought Armstrong park ro be the place. But now it will be difficult. If I could really have a poem match it would be clear. That is the most frustrating part of this hunt.

Lafitte wrote:: But now it will be difficult. Sheesh, you're right there...thanks for the info...

I knew this statue was not there when the casque was buried. I had already done some research on this. More about this marker. By Richard E. Miller, July 14, 2009 2. Bienville Monument, north face statue sculpted by Angela Gregory, 1955. The statue was first erected at the Bienville Plaza near the New Orleans Union (railroad) station in April 1955. It was relocated to Bienville Place in November 1996.

slappybuns wrote:: lafitte, i'm glad there's a hunter in NO!!  was everything changed at Armstrong Park?  could you show us where they moved the statue, and from where? whiterabbit, r u close to any of the likely sites?  are u a hunter?  once u find  a spot are you gonna go dig? i I'll do my best. Won't be back in N.O. for a bit. But Armstrong park is really messed up.

lafitte, you don't think verse #2 with the sarmiento quote "who build palaces to shelter their homes for a night!" is the right verse?  in that book it was talking about the st. charles hotel (i think)

Now that Armstrong is such a mess, maybe folks will begin focusing on Lafeyette again since that is where the casque is.  lol

good to see you fox! i do love that little boy on the mcdonough statue but everyone says you can not dig there.......when i was reading that thread i remember thinking "down to the ground"  and henry clay is there and clay can mean earth, ground....... and if "where jewels abound" is elysian field road (or whatever, i forget now), then it would be down there in the french quarter somewhere right? after you went "15 roads", which would make sense for the french image............ it's great to know you guys are still out there! it's good to see everyone again!

Hi Fox... * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * After Lafitte torpedoed my Decatur theory, I started looking at another pic, but my researches dragged me back to this one. So here are some thoughts from a different angle. First I'll just update my map to indicate where the Bienville/Joan monuments were in BP's day as far as I understand. Joan was at the Place de France at the foot of Canal St., and Bienville at the Bienville Plaza near the New Orleans Union railroad station on South Rampart St. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Verse 10 Although the sign Nearby Speaks of Indies native The natives still speak Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols I was thinking about "him of Hard word in 3 Vols" in V10, and wondered if this might be Noah Webster of dictionary fame. (I see this was also suggested previously.) I remembered a Louis Armstrong number which goes: You'll find the answer if you take a look In Mr. Webster's dictionary book ...Louis' answer being Sugar . Here's some info on his version ... The lyrics also include some Narcissus-friendly lines like: I'd make a million trips To his [her] lips, If I were a bee ...so I thought I'd see how the rest of it checked out with this image, since it seems impossible to say for 100% certain which image matches which verse. The most obvious sugar connection with New Orleans is the Sugar Bowl at the Louisiana Superdome. (Tupperwerewolf?) In the shadow Of the grey giant I wondered if the Superbowl might be the "Grey Giant". I was interested to see that there's a bunch of nearby streets named after the nine Muses , who were neighbours of Narcissus on Mount Helicon. (Three nines on the clock.) The full list of these is: Calliope Clio Erato Euterpe Melpomene Polyhymnia Terpsichore Thalia Urania The Muses tend to brandish things like comedy masks and trumpets, which looked encouraging. Here's Clio, Euterpe and Thalia. Clio (History) has the trumpet, Thalia has the mask. I like this pic since it seems to have similar red/blue/purple colouring to the image. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * In "Preservation", we can find "Pres [French "near"] in Erato". (The V looks crossed out.) In the initial capitals of the verse, we can find "Clio". I wondered if these letters might be regularly spaced, and found that you can reach them by taking every sixth initial starting with C ars. If you continue, you end up with this sequence (covering each letter once): COLIYTOTISFOENOIFATAO ...before ending up where you started. I was pleased to see it finish with TAO, since this crops up in other parts of the book - for instance, at the bottom-left of the same double page. It basically means:  "way". If meaningful, this string of letters might be interpreted in different ways. For instance, we could divide it up like this: COLI YTO TISF OEN OIFAT AO CLIO TOY FITS ONE AIOFT AO (I'd prefer not to have to use the I as an L in Aloft, but I consoled myself by looking for some lofts, or attics. The Ritch Doctor is described as an MD, and located in Maryland - MD - but originally comes from "Attic Greece". In Roman numerals, MD is 1500, and the Superbowl is at 1500 Sugar Bowl Drive. The Doctor is also shown, for no obvious reason, sitting at a desk with a key in his back. Mechanical Turk...?) Given the Greek theme, AO could suggest Alpha & Omega. I also like: L ook down A nd see simple roots I n rhapsodic man's soil Or gaze north T oward the isle of B. Tailor / sleeve...? Nearby Taylor Park...? (I had this idea of the mask being pulled off clock-boy and replanted in the sleeve, like, find the spot in Taylor Park where the statue would be, or something. The Muses are daughters of Memory.) The moon and the checkerboard suggests a game of draughts, and the Superbowl from above would fit in with that. (Draught-pieces are called "dames", which crop up in the field guide, along with draft-dodgers.) Other thoughts: Speaks of Indies native Perhaps a plant that's native to the West/East Indies. Eg, does Sugarcane fit that description...? Might be a sign for Sugar Bowl Drive or something. I also wondered about rubber & sarsaparilla. In rhapsodic man's soil Louis starred in a flick called A Rhapsody in Black and Blue . (cf Boogie Man field-guide reference to black & blue.) Cars abound Arcs...? Crescent city / Joan of Arc. isle of B Foibles...? Foible being the tip of a sword. Reminds me of the clock pointer, the tip of which resembles an anchor, a sword, or an Aries sign.

My problem is the clock face.

my problem is the verse.  verse #2 has the quote "Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night!"  from Abroad in America[i] [/i] talking about the St. Charles Hotel in New Orleans.  how do you get past this whiterabbit?

It's a great find, and I'm sure it comes in somewhere. But I don't think you can rely 100% on any reference to link an image with a verse, however ingenious. The book seems riddled with cross-connections, and you can only be certain once you've followed a verse through a set of ground-level instructions that have led you to the right spot. V2 is definitely a good candidate, but I think it's also worth staying open to other possibilities...

im confused here, the quote links the verse to a city not to an image. The image is linked to the city by lat/lon/ , LA map, etc... Is there something I am missing linking the verse to the picture?

slappybuns wrote:: my problem is the verse.  verse #2 has the quote "Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night!"  from Abroad in America[i] [/i] talking about the St. Charles Hotel in New Orleans.  how do you get past this whiterabbit? I didn't know about the abroad in america link. Where was this found? I tried looking it up but had no sucess.

you're right malted, just in my mind i can't see how this image could be anything but new orleans, with the latitudes and longitudes and preservation and louis armstrong mask and storyland and preservation. but yes, the quote in verse 2 leads one to new orleans, but not necessarily to this image................

lafitte, it's from sarmiento talking about his travels in America------------- Abroad in America: Visitors to a A New Nation "Here is the sovereign people who build palaces to shelter their heads for a night!  Here is the religion which is dedicated to man as man, and here the marvels of art are lavished on the glorification of the masses." n verse 6, the Edwin and Edwina line comes from this same book. and it was about the st. charles hotel, but not the one that is there now....

Thank you Slappybuns.

Unknown: The Earthenware Head Who modelled the head of terracotta? An American friend.... ...Dark whorls, ferrying slender willow yellows... What happened? Maybe nothing happened. Perhaps it’s still Representing you to the sunrise, happy In its cold pastoral, lips pursed slightly As if my touch had only just left it. Or did boys find it? (And shatter it?) Or Did the tree too kneel finally? Surely the river got it. Surely The river is its chapel. And keeps it. Surely Your head, made in a furnace, kisses God – Mudded at the bottom of the Cam, Beyond recognition or rescue, All our fears washed from it, and perfect, Under the stained mournful flow, saluted Only in summer briefly by the slender Punt-loads of shadows flitting towards their honey And the stopped clock. Noticed yesterday that "La Fayette" appears in the section on the Pre-revolutionary Warlock - "a smallish Fay who took the form of a humble French weremole". Just a few more thoughts on this, then I'd better move onto another pic or I'll never get through them all. It's another general brainstorming thing, in the form of an attempt at a walkthrough with V10. In the shadow Of the grey giant The shadows are moon shadows, and the superdome/sugarbowl is moon-like from above. Find the arm that Extends over the slender path I think it's Clio's arm that extends; trumpet-playing neighbour of Narcissus, see above. Near the superdome to the south, there's an intersection of Willow St ( Slender Willow ) and Clio St. (Incidentally there's a great poem by Ted Hughes that seems to fit this image, with willows and masks. Here's an excerpt.) hxxp://www.lrb.co.uk/v02/n03/ted-hughes/two-poems In summer you'll often hear a whirring sound Possibly air-conditioning, will come back to that. Or Heli con, residence of Narcissus and the Muses. Cars abound Arcs, crescent city. Although the sign Nearby Speaks of Indies native The natives still speak Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols. Haven't found the sign, but I think this section refers to "sugar" (the sugarbowl), via Armstrong/Webster and sugar-cane links, as explained above. (Incidentally, Webster is mentioned in a caption for Alibi Elf.) Take twice as many east steps as the hour Or more To the east of this intersection, there's a big "X" in the aerial view which is about halfway down towards the other end of Clio street at Margaret Place. (See in the middle of the two red crosses marking the Willow/Clio intersection and the other end of Clio.) I'm taking this "X" as the hour. Take twice as many east steps as the hour Or more "More" indicates "+", rotated to give the "X". (I think "or" can alo be represented by "+", as a logical operator.) Found this terrier nearby. (Corner of Erato St and Oretha C Haley Bvd.) The Great Lafayette's dog Beauty was a terrier. Seems to belong to an air-con firm. (May not be old enough though.) Take twice the distance from the Clio/Willow intersection as the X, and you wind up at Margaret Place . From the middle of one branch Of the v Look down And see simple roots In rhapsodic man's soil Or gaze north Toward the isle of B. Dunno. Louis could be the rhapsodic man (see above). I somehow doubt if "B" is an actual island, whatever image it goes with. I don't know how diggable Margaret Haugherey is, though possible landmarks are also worth investigating. With her string of pearls, she vaguely resembles the Unreal Estate Broker. ("Margaret" comes from "Pearl" . Nearly an anagram of "Orleans" in the For Sale sign.) The aerial view is slightly reminiscent of the clock design. She once worked at the St Charles Hotel. Seems to be quite a famous figure/monument. (Philanthropist known as "the bread woman".) hxxp://www.carrigallen.com/margaretgaffney.htm

lafitte, i promised myself that i would keep an open mind this time, but it seems i am still stuck on certain images and verses going together, i've  got to stop that. in one way, it would seem, finding two quoted texts from the same book would be important.  and that the places quoted would lead to a city.  in verse 6, the "edward and edwina" was about blyden and someone naming their twins after him while he was in "charleston".   verse 2  "here is a sovereign..." is about new orleans. ? still......this is just one thing to keep in mind as we hunt. it is possible they were just words he grabbed from a book......

slappybuns wrote:: in one way, it would seem, finding two quoted texts from the same book would be important. slappybuns wrote:: it is possible they were just words he grabbed from a book...... I agree!! That way lies madness.

It is possible (at least in my mind) that the Sarmiento quotes were included in the verses one specific reason: the book was incredibly "obscure". If we had not had the internet search tools we have now, we might never have found the quotes. They DO point to the cities involved, but there is absolutely no reason to believe they were included so they WOULD point to the cities. With BP being a publisher, it would be relatively easy for him to find and use such obscure quotes without their ever being detected as pointing to the cities. I believe this is the reason he chose that book and those quotes. Not because they would be usable clues, but as confirmers only because the rest of the clues in the images would be used first and more often. Finding a couple of similiar words in other poems, (such as the Ted Hughes poem) do not confirm anything. They are coincidence only, probably--if not, then any quotes would have had to been taken from one of his 9 collections prior to 1983 since he did not publish anything from 1979 to 1983. So if that poem predates 1983, then it is possible to connect them (though in my opinion, unlikely for many reasons) but if not, then there could be no connection. I'm sure there are many such coincidental similiarities in many other literary works. When you write and publish, you're always taking a phrase that sticks in your mind and using it somewhere--even if you didn't write it. It happens all the time. Look at the case of plagiarism brought against George Harrison for "My Sweet Lord" by the writers who wrote "He's So Fine" (The Chiffons, 1963). This happens a LOT, and it might just have happened here with the two Sarmiento quotes as well!

shecrab wrote:: Finding a couple of similiar words in other poems, (such as the Ted Hughes poem) do not confirm anything. They are coincidence only, probably (Yeah, shouldn't really have included the Ted Hughes quote, but posted it up anyway 'cos it predates the book and I liked it... )

ck and forest  ;D ;D  (could someone make an emoticon for a smiling heart or a singing heart??  :)  )  it's good to see you guys! in the image, the upper part that makes it look like a grandfather clock, the curves: i was watching a movie yesterday "billy budd", by herman melville (strange huh, same author as for verse #1)  i missed some of it, but there was this one scene with the boat, and the boat looked just like that.  i will try to catch it again and record it.  really good story, but really sad too. but anyway, was just wondering if there was a boat like that in new orleans, i remember in storyland the captain hook boat with peter pan.  i'll try to find a pic. well, i found this one, but it's not exactly what i saw in the movie: hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/gjcharlet/ ... otostream/

look fox, (thinkinjg of "namesakes") what if it's not by the statue but by the historical marker.  it has the same shape ( i know, all the historical markers have that shape ), but in this photo you can see the peter pan guy right behind the marker.. just like in the image.. hxxp://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image ... 4135&gid=3 the only bad thing.......says it was dedicated in 1985............. i had been looking at the allard plantation sign at city park because it had "the spirit of 76" on it (mentioned in the book)  (by the beauregard statue, his horse is standing on 3 legs, lol ) (Spirit of '76 is on the little sign at the bottom) hxxp://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM9G ... Plantation (erected 1968) and the dixie pixie hxxp://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image ... c3b07e83ec or the fauborg treme sign........................treme is "slovenian" for "3" hxxp://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM63 ... ourg_Treme i don't think i'd ever read that storyland had "21" rides before, always tried to find how many storybook characters there were........so this make it interesting: "Built in the 50’s by master float builders Storyland boasts of 21 rides,..." hxxp://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM7D ... _Louisiana hxxp://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g6086 ... yland.html "This place is perfect if you're visiting New Orleans with smaller children. The larger city park in which the amusement park is located is beautiful.  There's a nice museum, a sculpture garden, ponds, lakes, playgrounds, etc. and it's easy to get to from the French Quarter. Take the Canal trolley line (a treat in itself for children) labeled "city park" (not the streetcar labeled "cemetaries") north to the end of the line and walk about fifteen minutes into the park to get to Storyland. " i'm thinking maybe the carousel (for the circle in the image), i read where only 3 of the animals "stand"(lion, giraffe and camel), the rest are "flying", and like we noticed years ago, the horse in the block (louisiana map) looks like the flying horses "The carousel figures are of three type s: standers , with three feet on the ground; jumpers, with all four feet in the air; and prancers with the two hind legs earthbound..." hxxp://blog.nola.com/times-picayune/200 ... _agai.html or popps bandstand or fountain....."popp's..............namesakes (named after your parent?, reunions, families......it's circular also wonder if there is a historical marker "near" these  :) i do like these historical marker, most of them have the word "site" on them. hxxp://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=21859 LOOK AT THIS GUYS! i was looking up the st. charles railway line markers and reading about the streetcar lines............this site mentions NAMESAKES STREET scroll down to Canal street line, 1st paragraph hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetcars_in_New_Orleans canal street line ends at the beauregard statue..........look at the pics hxxp://web.presby.edu/~jtbell/transit/NewOrleans/Canal/ CANAL STREET LINE ON CANAL STREET----NAMESAKES i guess the st. charles line where it meets st. charles street would be "namesakes" too here are the streetcar lines: hxxp://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie ... 7&t=h&z=13 the circles for the turnarounds could be the circle in the image...or.......the st charles line does have half a circle......and it would be "travel straight and then turn left into lafayette or audubon park----it goes to armstrong park too the canal street line would "travel straight, then turn right into city park like in the "solved" ones the lines in the circle (in the image)  could be for the street car "lines" in the roads

umm this might be a little out there but....... st. charles street used to be nayades street.....closest meaning i could find was "naiad".........."a type of nymph who presided over fountains, wells, springs brooks"

Good work, slaps! I don't know if I had seen that there were 21 "rides" before either, although we have speculated about it before. This is an intriguing confirmation! The three who stand watch might be the three little pigs, which we know are in the park. But are they at the 11th position? (in the middle of twenty-one from end to end). We need someone on the ground. I also like your "namesakes" theory. This is the first theory about namesakes that I could actually believe. Exciting!

hxxp://files.asme.org/ASMEORG/Communiti ... s/3106.pdf just showing how the switch stops from the streetcars look like the ones in the image maybe it has something to do with stops on the little train or the train garden or the real streetcar stop miniature train: " ..miniature train that provides a 15 minute ride through the southwestern quarter of the park, to Bayou St. John, and back. "

i'm switching my interest to audubon park (for now) 1.  st. charles streetcar line and st. charles avenue (canal streetcar line didn't run for years) hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/458 ... otostream/ 2. olmsted designed it 3.  (i know i'm gonna get it for this, but whiterabbit will smile)........during my research of the fair folk, from the map on p. 10, i had #7 and#8 going to france, and #7 going to france/holland. anyway, the tupperwerewolves (dutch) on p. 136, had the same checkered tablecloth as in the image.  these guys are "almost indistinguishable from a normal human "bore".."bores" bores" and audubon park "The two principal parks of New Orleans are Audubon and City Parks. They are situated at opposite extremities of the city. Audubon Park is a magnificent expanse of •247 acres. It was originally the property p683of the patriotic Mazan, one of Lafrénière'sº companions in the disastrous revolt in 1768. His property was confiscated by the Spanish government, and some years later granted to Pierre Foucher, son-in‑law of Etienne de Boré. De Boré's own estate lay below the present lower boundary of the park; it was there that he succeeded in perfecting the manufacture of sugar, and raised the first commercially profitable crop of that staple ever grown in Louisiana. Both of these estates eventually fell into the hands of the Marquis de Circé-Foucher, by whose heirs the present Audubon Park was sold to the city in 1871 for $180,000. It was known in 1879 as the "New City Park." The name of Audubon was not bestowed till some years later, at the suggestion of Dr. T. G. Richardson, to whom Coliseum Square also owes its name. The land was allowed to lie unimproved till 1884, when the Cotton Centennial Exposition was ...." and somewhere (can't find it now), i remember reading the st. charles streetcar line was 42 blocks and they stopped every 2 blocks......half of 42 is " 21" .....or audubon began living in new orleans 18 21 this site says the first streetcar was introduced at audubon park: hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/4583890060/ was this the end of the line? hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/458 ... otostream/ shape of our clock? hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/459 ... otostream/ the more i look at tulane, the more i like it for the clock

slappybuns wrote:: the tupperwerewolves (dutch) on p. 136, had the same checkered tablecloth as in the image.  these guys are "almost indistinguishable from a normal human "bore".."bores" bores" De Boré's own estate lay below the present lower boundary of the park; it was there that he succeeded in perfecting the manufacture of sugar Ha, yeah, I like it. I'd previously associated the tupperwerewolves with this image via the checkered tablecloth, and wondered about the sugar bowl shape. The entry discusses relatives like the were-wolves, were-bears and were-foxes, and elsewhere "La Fayette" is described as a "were-mole". I thought the "bores" repetition must mean something, but couldn't figure out what. I'm sure there's stuff that's planted deliberately to get you thinking about certain people and places, even if this is just general "New Orleans" banter. I was looking at Audubon Park at one point since I was trying to follow a trail of landmarks across the clock-face, and wondered if the blue arch at the top was the bend in the Mississippi. I've circled the park. If you interpret just the darker shadow of the clock river as the real one, it's about where the moon is. The most logical place for Narcissus would be near the brink. (Oh no, not another zoo... ) I wondered if there might be a clue in one of the plates of Birds of America , though I can't see anything significant for the numbers in the image. Here's a good reference site . * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * I won't be outdone when it comes to dubious Field Guide references, so here's another one. The flying kids in the "Passing Fancies" pic suggest clock-boy, they're "passionately fond of music", and they're flying around a bottle of Perrier. (Perrier St?) (I've wondered whether clock-boy is actually swimming, or if bubbles come into it somewhere.)

the thing about the passing fancies, a lot of that is in city park.....the love sculpture and all umm, the tupperwerewolves mentions "bowls" a lot too, here's a good one with the fountain: hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/458 ... otostream/ it's got 3 figures (not counting the turtles) and the shape is kindof delft or dutch don't you think? this is near the entrance, wonder can u see tulane from it? i'm thinking it would be near the st. charles entrance because of the namesakes line. and i like that shape from google earth going into tulane u. gates: hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/4580595363/

I just wish I could get down to New Orleans with a shovel and dig. Theories are great... but pointless without digging. (Including my own)

is there a chance cormac?? here's our #11 forest  ;D hxxp://www.auduboninstitute.org/visit/p ... shelter-11 it's good for reunions where we see all our "namesakes" and it's close to the entrance washington park would have been perfect if there was anything there, it's beside elysian fields road (where jewels abound), it's where tennesse williams leads you in [i ]Streetcar Named Desire[/i] but i don't see anything there.... hxxp://books.google.com/books?id=DGBmsY ... ns&f=false (except that one statue's base?) back to audubon park: (thinking that the fair folk may just mention different things in the parks) hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/infrogmati ... otostream/ could be the shape in the bowl on p. 136 and look at this tile (you have to scroll down a bit) of the guy on a hill looking at the boats, looks like the pic on p. 137 hxxp://www.antiquescentreyorkeshop.co.u ... 1_2dSN4726 or monkey hill? alibi elf p. 126 mentions "labyrinthe" legal system.........there's a labyrinthe in audubon park a better one of the fountain.........dishwasher safe....lol hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/globalized ... otostream/ and of course this one (which is tricky since there's supposed to be one in city park by the carousel, just like it.. hxxp://www.saveaudubonpark.org/web/saparchive/p4043.htm but it does have MCMXIV  on it...........dig at the XI

Don't forget Diana - moon goddess holding a stick. She's even got the dog as well. hxxp://www.neworleanscvb.com/static/ind ... ectionID/0

okay, trying to be a little more logical, in the image we have: storyland: puffed sleeves, flowers, and storyland moon and stars, humpty dumpty stick lafayette: the little boy, and the st. charles streetcar line went right by there and it's bounded by st. charles avenue armstrong park:  the mask and the grandfather clock---guess who wrote that song........... Henry Clay Work----------------------isn't that strange?  we have Henry Clay in Lafayette Park, and Henry Cla y Work wrote "My Grandfather's Clock" hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Grandfather%27s_Clock recorded on the Peter Pan label, lol maybe this is why we could never find an exact match to the clock funny i ended back right where i was when i first started talking about "namesakes" hxxp://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image ... 4135&gid=3 with the sign right in front of the little boy henry clay was born in april, 1 777 --------------in the middle of 21---------------1777 year of his birth, but not sure if it's on the statue yet i was joking before about "down to the ground" meaning earth, clay but ... hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/15614505@N00/180070020 "as the sound of friends fills the afternoon hours"---------------------------------------------mcdonogh statue "here is a sovereign people who build palaces to shelter their heads for a night"----st. charles avenue "gnomes admire, fayes delight, the namesakes meeting near this site"-----------------lafayette square (marker?) i know you guys found this place, just thinking the "grandfather clock song" might be a confirmation?? if we have to breakdown the last line with "gnomes admire" (money)......... ben franklin statue has "one penny saved is better than two pennies earned" but the mcdonogh statue, the kids saved their pennies for 6 years.....

hxxp://www.tekkaus.com/2010/08/my-grand ... hirai.html see the crescent moon and stars scroll down to the image of henry clay's song

hxxp://www.klockit.com/products/dept-20 ... clock.html " ORLEANS " grandfather clock looking at the image, on our right side, to the right of the "29" on the wood part, looks like a door hinge or gate hinge, or possibly a flagpole with truck it's different from the other side and i've probabably been looking at this too long, but on  our right at the top, very top corner, i see that little mermaid girl in storyland.  her head is part of the clock, right uder the first full block, and her tail is the very first triangular block at very top right. i told ya i was no good at this!  they are upside down!

why not Lee Circle? look at the streetcar lines on this map: hxxp://wikimapia.org/#lat=29.9433387&lo ... 18&l=0&m=b hxxp://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... ram02b.jpg hxxp://www.inetours.com/New_Orleans/Pho ... tatue.html could be the flagpole i thought i could see on the right side of the image. looks like about 15 steps down to the ground hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/4550858972/ on this map, counting beginning and end , there would be "21" stops.   lee circle is at " 3" -only 3 stand watch (stand, stop) hxxp://www.trekexchange.com/files/NO_St ... ur_Map.pdf or maybe the giant urns on tripod legs could be the "3" see that big roman numeral "I" underneath him.......... hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/455 ... otostream/

Yep... those theories kinda sum it up... yet no one will put a shovel in the ground.

i know cormac ........we need hunters what is your theory? lafitte r u still out there?  are you listening to all our ramblings and getting any ideas?

how about this idea? at the place where jewels abound-----------------------------THE GARDEN DISTRICT--carondelet, josephine, magazine and louisiana avenue hxxp://www.aaccessmaps.com/show/map/us/ ... gardendist fifteen rows down to the ground -----------------------------AUDUBON PARK  (olmsted design) (from the garden district----------15 roads, sure looks close, and ends with HENRY CLAY ST. , (clay-earth, ground) in the middle of 21------------------the stops on the streetcar line,  or the #11 shelter hxxp://www.auduboninstitute.org/visit/p ... shelter-11 from end to end-----------the park?? (i keep hearing friend to friend) (counting 1st and last stop, 21) hxxp://www.trekexchange.com/files/NO_St ... ur_Map.pdf only 3 stand watch----gumbel fountain? hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/globalized ... otostream/ as the sound of friends fills the the afternoon hours-----------woodland creatures, zoo "ere is a sovereign people who build....."----------------------------- st. charles hotel and st. charles avenue gnomes admire, faye's delight, the namesakes meeting near this site------------------------------st. charles avenue and st. charles streetcar

fox is still out there and he's a hunter and stercox and forest are both hunters and willhouse and boogieman and cthree are hunters and ck and tyler and AP are  hunters, and egbert!  so if these guys ever get a chance to go to any of these places they will.   so, there is still a chance something we say will make them say....that seems reasonable.............right?  :) and shadowrunner and loph are probably still hunting.............. lafitte is in new orleans and she can let us know if anything we say sounds promising right lafitte? do you guys think i'm focusing too much on the st. charles streetcar?? it's the only thing i've read in new orleans that mentioned "namesakes" the thing is , the picture has pictures of 3 different parks.......

I'm coming back round to V2, so here's another brainstorming walkthrough. At the place where jewels abound Diamond St. Fifteen rows down to the ground It was 15 roads down from a place called "Odyssey's Shipwreck and Treasure Adventure", on 600 Decatur (top circle), though I don't think it's there any more. I've emailed them to ask if it was there then. (I like it as a landmark, though if it wasn't there, I can always fudge round it and work something out from St Louis Cathedral instead.) The route goes down Tchoupitoulas St., which is named after an Indian tribe. I like Odyssey because it's on Toulouse St (one up from St Louis), and the image is in the style of Toulouse Lautrec . For instance, consider this pic of Jane Avril. (Not an exact match maybe, but pretty Toulouse-esque.) (I've wondered before about shipwreck / sunken treasure ideas in this pic. For instance, Narcissus drowning. The French fays are described as "sturdy seafaring" folk, and that's before the verses so BP hasn't ruled it out.  ;) After looking at image 3, I also view atomic numbers as fair game. This gives 15 for P (Phosphorus), so "Fifteen rows down to the ground" could be "Prows down to the ground".) In the middle of twenty-one The middle three letters of "PRESERVATION", between 2 and 1 on the clock. With V divided by an upright, and the "I"s around, I'm going to interpret this as "RIA". (Other possible hints are "Air back", scuba diving, cf mask and clock-boy.) As alphabet numbers, this gives 1891. And that's when the nearby Confederate Memorial Hall was founded. (Lower left ring on the map). It's at 929 Camp St. From end to end This may refer to close-quarters digging instructions, but I'll persevere. Clock-boy seems to be indicating 10 and 4, or JD. Since my Bienville monument was moved, I reserve the right to also reinterpret the "JB" on the clock as "JD". Jefferson Davis spent some time in this place, posthumously. Only three stand watch Robert , Edward, and Lee, just round the corner. As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours French for friends is "amis", so "the sound of friends" is "armies"...refers to killing time at this army museum. Re: "Preservation Hall"...... Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! St Charles Ave Gnomes admire Not sure, quite anagram-friendly. Eg, "gem roman side" (RC cathedral? Sarmiento himself is "Roman site".) Fays delight Might simply be a clue that this is the puzzle for the French Fays of the litany. The namesakes meeting Near this site Could refer to any two crossing streets named after people nearby. Eg, St Charles and St Joseph. Saints and namesakes seem to crop up together in Google search results, eg here , but I don't know whether this is a saint-specific thing. So there you have it...buried in the grounds. Possibly. I like the plaque, and I'm starting to think BP was mad enough to hide them anywhere.

Unknown: French for friends is "amis", so "the sound of friends" is "armies"... actually the "sound" of amis is AH MEE, not army. Close, but no cigar.

"Gnomes admire Fays delight" is a strange phrase, and the whole thing could be an anagram. Find a mole - gems eight yards Might seem arbitrary, but if you're looking for distances that narrows it down. Clock-boy looks like he could be digging a tunnel, and there's also that "Lafayette took the form of a weremole" thing in the Field Guide. Hate to abandon the Memorial Hall so soon, but perhaps it's Lafayette after all. They're so nearby that either could be a signpost for the other.

that's interesting that you said saints and namesakes seem to show up together on a search new orleans saints! "Since 1975, the Saints' home stadium has been the Louisiana Superdome,[1] except for the 2005 disruption caused by Hurricane Katrina." and saint charles avenue so if the moon in the pic is the superdome......

i'm sorry (ck and forest, i know u guys don't want me to go here) but my mind keeps saying this.... tulane-----------2 lane toulouse-------2 loose too tight-------2 okay.......it's out there........now back to the right verse

i think the checkered background is just the harlequin design............harlequin park scroll down to the harlequin rug hxxp://www.woodworkersauction.com/Rugs/contemp12.htm so we start there, (where jewels abound, jewel, tourquoise, emerald roads) and we end up right back at city park where there are 21 rides and storyland is where the namesakes meet and where our Hour hand looks like the ladybug ride hxxp://www.pbase.com/etfitz/image/70481772/original aren't ladybugs portrayed as fairies sometimes? what is that between the XI and the hourhand? here it upside down, i see a little stick man or woman, or the letters  pgt hehe, well i can see them or maybe it spells PIG ,  for one of the 3 little pigs houses

I like WhiteRabbit, live on the otherside of the Pond. I have had quite an enjoyable afternoon reading all the posts on this thread, as its seems at the moment to be the main active Q4T thread. I don't even have the book, but quite a bit of the verse and obviously the picture have been posted. Way back someone posted that the harlequin figure looked like a baseball player, has anyone thought that the line ' At the place where jewels abound ' could be a place with lots of baseball diamonds, i.e. a training area. Keep up the good work, and I hope one of you find it. The below looks like a flower, and I take it they are 4 baseball diamonds (I maybe wrong), and the Avenues running beside are Hickory and Dickory.

wow, i like that!  hickory dickory dock, the mouse ran up the CLOCK! now i'll go look up that area good to have you here with us shrek!

Hi Shrek. There's a full set of images and verses at Tweleve , but it's worth getting the book, which also includes a lot of other stuff of dubious relevance. Get yourself a copy on Amazon .

(For the record, Odyssey wasn't there in '82.)

u know guys, if you take the letters showing with the P and I you get PIRATES..... so it would be the peter pan and captain hook right? that would be kind of treasure huntery , where the hour hand points to certain letters and then u have the X for marks the spot! or pirates alley  by jackson square......maybe #15 pontalba row house or maybe it is saying PRIVATE

at pirate's alley cafe they serve absinthe. absinthe is called "The Green Fairy".......hmmmm

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Hi Shrek. There's a full set of images and verses at Tweleve , but it's worth getting the book, which also includes a lot of other stuff of dubious relevance. Get yourself a copy on Amazon . Thanks for the link, WhiteRabbit, I am working on other hunts at the moment, but there are times when the trail to these hunts gets stale, and I need to stimulate the brain cells, so looking at the various forums on Q4T, which I haven't participated in, makes me SHOUT out my obvious thoughts, which may or may not lead somewhere, and I know that people get blinkered (like myself), when devoting so much time on trying to solve a specific hunt. Reading the posts on Verse 7, made me remember my, for and against arguements, which I had with various board members, and how I got totally lost in a theory that could not be wrong. which turned out to be way off track. Sometimes we need to sit back and smell the roses, and this informative afternoon that I had reading the posts on this thread, did just that. People, your gonna solve this , work together. Nick

rose? rows? rues?  see, can't take time to smell them, i'm off on another track already...lol just wish we had a hunter down there that had time to check out everything. think i'm gonna move on to a different v and I for awhile. unless someone thinks my P and I  in the ladybughour pic is possible... stick around shrek, we need different ideas, sometimes you just have to bust down our notions.........i can't seem to move far from city park, but i 've tried!

guess i'm not done here yet  ;D "The gnomon is the part of a sundial that casts the shadow. Gnomon (γνώμων) is an ancient Greek word meaning "indicator", "one who discerns," or "that which reveals." hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnomon i thought there were two sundials in city park earth dwellers (underground) or under bridges (trolls) bacher sundial i always picture them as loving gold (guess thats where the krugerrands come in) and there are those gnomes or satyrs by enrique alferez in the botanical gardens, and the ROSE garden where fairies would be delighted i know someone dug somewhere around th sundial...just can't find where but i like the clock and steeple at jackson square too, and the canal street ferry and the federal bank around lafayette square

k, guys, i hinted for someone else to do this so don't laugh sure looks like a STREETCAR OR MINIATURE TRAIN to me.......... oops, i don't know how to delete one of 'em look at the pic horizontally with the bottom left turned left and just look at the line closest to the clock so...the st. charles line in the verse and st. charles road and st. charles streetcar?

hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/458 ... otostream/ i feel it's at a waymark sign.....when i tried to outline the shadows on the mask (you have to flip the image upside down), it looked like a pelican, and the humpty dumpty stick could be the post hxxp://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image ... 7048ca2d04 Long Description: In New Orleans, in the section of the city known as Carrolton, is a sign set up by the state of Louisiana for the St. Charles street car line. This sign is next to the rails that still support the trolley line that runs either in or between lanes of either St. Charles Avenue, or South Carrolton Avenue. The sign is found on South Carrolton Ave., but within site of the intersect with St. Charles Ave. It is located on the north side, not far from a trolley stop. or...the miniature train ride in city park.. hxxp://neworleanscitypark.com/carousel_gardens.html

cinderella had to leave by midnight.....hour on the clock..........and wasn't it a grandfather clock that chimed? hxxp://2.bp.blogspot.com/_zPzveb_czZk/S ... lpture.jpg shape is good, and has the XI  V that the hour hand is pointing to

In the Disney movie as well as many others it was a clock tower that tolled midnight not a grandfather clock

It's a cute fountain - "Another part of the inscription says By bequest Mrs. Chapman H. Hyams left her jewels to Audubon and City Parks ". hxxp://www.saveaudubonpark.org/web/saparchive/p4047.htm Jewels and Audubon is pretty close to Jewels Abound - just an extra U to worry about. And much as I disapprove of finding random locations and trying to make them fit ( ) I like the XIV idea. (The MCM which precedes it also fits the 19.) I can't work out where it is though...? Somewhere near, or on, Magazine St. and the zoo, apparently, but can't find it in Google Street View. Seems she donated two; one to City Park (Carousel Gardens) and the other to Audubon Park; not sure if they're both still there, or whether they're both the same. More here: hxxp://old-new-orleans.com/NO_wading_pools I got my hopes up when I saw: "Sara Lavinia Hyams Fountain, 1929", but that just seems to be the date the pic was taken. Mr & Mrs Chapman H Hyams seem to have been fairly notable New Orleans characters. (He was connected with the St Charles Hotel, as well as a jockey club.) hxxp://www.bestofneworleans.com/gambit/ ... id=1255321 (Cool memorial actually. I wouldn't mind something like that. Eventually.)

that's the same fountain that is in audubon park (both audubon and city park).....i didn't find it........think someone else found it years ago..but this was just the best picture i had seen of it that really showed the shape. i like "to the little children"...... little people (fairies) lol wow, you are good whiterabbit! abound and audubon! pretty cool!........maybe that #11 shelter after all......close to st. charles avenue!! that could be significant! c'mon guys what do you think?

tomorrow i'll try to find something i read.......this guy had bob vila(?)  over at his house and they walked over to that fountain in audubon park.....he wanted bob villa to fix it.....but i think he just shrugged his shoulder or something......sounded like it was in pretty sad shape compared to the one in city park.

remember guys, the first lines in the solved ones were roads, audubon park road, in the middle of twenty - one from end to end twenty minus 2 ................the golf course,   twenty minus 2, 18 :) woodland creatures

hxxp://unacknowledgedlegislatorsofthewo ... chive.html this site says the fountain is at the back of the park ("quite hidden") "Under discussion is a commission proposal to expand the zoo area toward Magazine Street, a move that would push the zoo fence further into the open, free green space of the park and, in the process, swallow up the Hyams memorial. " hxxp://epicroadtrips.us/2003/summer/nol ... /p4027.htm "The fountain -- which is actually a wading pool, not a water-spewing extravaganza -- s its just outside the fence of the zoo on the river side of Magazine Street and it is famous primarily for the shame its Audubon Park caretakers have bestowed upon it. In the 10 years I have lived next to the park, it has never worked" it could still be the other fountain by st. charles avenue where the st. charles streetcar runs: hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/globalized ... otostream/ then the hyams statue is on the west of magazine and the la bore statue is on the east off of magazine..(by the golf course) and in between is the nature institute and the zoo "here is a sovereign people who build palaces to SHELTER their heads for a night!" dual purpose word?  one of the shelters in audubon park!!! hxxp://www.auduboninstitute.org/visit/parks/rentals only "THREE"  are available for rentals, #10, #11 and #12 hxxp://www.auduboninstitute.org/visit/p ... shelter-11 hxxp://www.auduboninstitute.org/visit/p ... shelter-10 hxxp://www.auduboninstitute.org/visit/p ... shelter-12 #10 has a band "stand" and it is closer to the hyams statue and the "bore" statue , i think

This page says: "Her aunt, Sara Hyams, donated the children’s fountain in either Audubon Park or City Park. That fountain does not exist today", so it's possible the one in AP is gone. I've emailed them to ask. Like the hour hand, the swimming clock-boy could be indicating XIV. Seems to be a statue of a boy looking down into the water at one end, which fits the Narcissus theme. gnomes admire / gem roman side - roman numerals...? Time to count those slabs.

hmm, we know it did in 2002 'cause bob vila was there, lol that person wasn't really checking on the fountains, just the family lines but it doesn't matter if it is one of the shelters whiterabbit, these guys are listening.....we just have to convince them, they think we're "out there" (or me anyway)............lol but that's our job........

(Random thoughts - if this was a fountain, I'm wondering where the water came out. Louis looks like one of these white figures. His mouth is fifteen rows down the page, counting the lines, in the middle, and the 21st letter. Fifteen rows down to the ground In the middle of twenty-one I've previously thought it might be some kind of "moon" clue, though it could also be the missing middle letter of Audubon, or connected with the fountain theme. The numbers could also refer to paving stones etc.)

and if the whole page is a map, then the mouth and the bottom of the top of the clock face is magazine road and the jewel is up by st. charles avenue and that fountain, and the #11 shelter, right? maybe by the gate>...gotta check to see if it has a lock on them....'cause it is shaped like a lock....... ...but i kinda like it better closer to the zoo and nature institute and guys, didn't you like that MINUS SIGN , instead of a HYPHEN in the verse    ;D now i'm trying to analyze the word hyphen,........if only there was an "s"........high fence...lol in the middle of twenty-------------#10 shelter from end to end------magazine road on google earth, it looks like 3 trees on the east side the park by magazine road i only see 2 lions at the aquarium entrance on zoo drive. in the middle of twen T yone........the letter T for the tea room drive upper city park was supposed to be it's name...............t upper werewolves and from the book:  "perfectly ordinary bore"......audubon park land was owned by Etienne de Boré, "Audubon Park's present form largely follows a design drafted by John Charles Olmsted..." "the park features sports fields and picnic facilities along the Mississippi River, in an area called Riverview Park.[3] This riverside portion of Audubon Park is known colloquially as the Fly[4]." fire fly.......fairies? "the ring road" could be the circle in the clock face ' maybe the audubon research center for endangered species ...............for namesakes.........'cause the fair folk are endangered i like the name "avenger field" (changed to berger now).......think it's close to the "bore" statue oh, and i forgot.......clay avenue (my grandfather's clock song) is on right side bottom of audubon park don't know how long the cascade stables have been there but they have been giving lessons since 1981 sure wish we could find the meaning of that horse story in the book.....was thinking maybe "4 horse (men) engine" or something another 3: hxxp://goneworleans.about.com/od/parks/ ... untain.htm is this another peter pan guy?  (bird house, bird island, might be why i see all the birds in the image) hxxp://goneworleans.about.com/od/parks/ ... -house.htm here is another picture hxxp://goneworleans.about.com/b/2010/03 ... -zoo-4.htm supposed to be "aesop's fables" by enrique alferez.....still looking for them ........(namesakes) or maybe the peter pan is "diana".......... hxxp://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Ax ... ZDhadS5i3A hxxp://www.paganspace.net/profile/Nola7 ... memberList i know you mentioned "diana" whiterabbit but when u did, i just read about it being at the port, didn't know it was in audubon park, i'm sorry!

Audubon Park reckons the fountain is still there in its original position. "It is located along the Zoo fence line, near the old Zoo entrance. It follows along Magazine St." Still can't find it on Google maps though. I like this fountain so much I've made another anagram in its honour. "Gnomes admire, Fays delight"  ->  "Hid me amid grey flagstones"

lol, i'm liking the diana fountain more now, do you have a good picture of it? or of that bird house pic?......can't seem to find the bas reliefs of aesop's fables in the children village yet

You're such a dilettante. (Incidentally, what are the general thoughts on getting locals involved...? I was wondering whether it might be possible to get someone at the zoo to take a look.)

usually, the hunters (the ones that will actually dig) contact someone to make sure it's ok to dig there or get permission.....i'm just armchair, out of ummmm, no way to get to these places, so maybe these other guys should respond how they did it. wonder why the #10 on this fountain? is this the diana fountain, where is the dog?.........and look the bottom looks like same shape too hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/38564198@N ... otostream/ hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/73577218@N00/4484875985/ hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/15254782@N08/4212254682/ maybe there are 3 cats by the gates hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/amyashcraft/4465697626/ hxxp://www.golfknickers.com/ same harlequin design........and there's a golf course at audubon park or T times at the golf course.....tea room drive and would you believe longfellow is quoted on the bandstand........"and the night shall be filled with music, and the cares that infest the day, shall fold their tents like the arabs and silently steal away" sure would like a better picture of this hxxp://goneworleans.about.com/od/parks/ ... -house.htm

WhiteRabbit - try this in Google Earth or in Google Maps (green arrow will point at the fountain): 29 55'25.89"N, 90 07'44.09"W

Thanks Forest. (Just been catching up with the V2 thread and noticed the quote you found: "The fay's delight is to await by the fountain".)

see, the peter pan guy is swinging a golf club, look at the big roman numerals on the golf course....lol hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/458 ... otostream/ robert c. cudd hall-----#8 on map in the middle of twenty=10 -      minus one from end to end=8 hxxp://tulane.edu/about/visiting/uptown-campus-map.cfm

Wow, yeah. And he's got the Argyll socks .

hxxp://www.auduboninstitute.org/sites/d ... ap2010.pdf the only thing interesting i see is at the entrance..........the Tea(twen T yone) Room is right beside the entrance and exit (from end to end) and the train stop  ;D Audubon Park Postcard "Grey-bearded monarchs of the forest" is what the poets call these great live oaks that are found in the parks of New Orleans. In the summertime their wide spreading branches shade picnic grounds for thousands of happy children. Publisher: E.C. Kropp, Co., Milwaukee, Wis. sounds like a grandfather to me .......grandfather clock....father time or maybe xiv is for louis xiv......back to the cathedral wonder if the "6-7-8" missing on the clock is important or the "9-10-11-12-1-2-3-4-5" hxxp://www.theasthmamom.com/2008/03/31/ ... dubon-zoo/ here's another picture of (maybe) the peter pan guy fountain, scroll down she's called hygeia.......goddess of cleanliness, (boring), hmm, bore "a celestial visitor"  from the fair hxxp://www.bestofneworleans.com/gambit/ ... id=1241980 maybe that extra U is for the University

hxxp://nutrias.org/photos/recreation%20 ... plan17.jpg this photo of the gumbel fluntain, the angle is more like the image k & b purple

Remember that the golf course in Audubon park was completely re done in 2002. And here's some info about the tea room. The Audubon Tea Room is the revival of a classic building built in Audubon Park in the 1930's and destroyed by fire in the late 1970's. The original was part of a complex of buildings across from the Audubon Zoo that included a carousel and a bandstand. The bandstand is all that is left. Cashio Cochran LLC selected Mathes Brierre Architects to be the associated architectural firm for this famous city landmark design. I'm not trying to shoot anyones entheusiasm down, just keep us focused on what the area was like when the casque was buried. I've been busy but will attempt to add to this after Halloween.

it's just great you are there and can tell us about the place lafitte!  we need you!  how do you feel about audubon park?  i love the " audubon----abound " idea whiterabbit had!  i think we should stick here around audubon.  i'm hoping BP hid stuff around stuff that is permanent like the fountains or statuary or even behind gates and stuff like that. the nature institute would be perfect for "namesakes" (woodland creatures) so that sara hyams fountain would be right there, somewhere in that area.  or we still have the st. charles streetcars meeting on st. charles avenue at the entrance. what do you think?  the shape of that fountain is good, and even the gumbel fountain, but you being able to see it in person could help really nail it. i can't seem to find a real map of the whole audubon park like city park has and i get turned around easily.  what are your ideas for the clock?  and should there be a map in the picture?  do you think the "mask" is the zoo part? do you think tulane looks like the clock shape? shouldn't we be able to overlay the park onto the image somewhere like the FOY map?  i'm trying but i don't have skills, as you'll see if you read back and see my outline of the "train" or streetcar ( which i still love , but no one else sees) they wouldn't move the statuary on the golf course would they?  like that la bore statue? and the "shelters" , what do you think about those?  i know 3 are rentals, but maybe there are more and maybe they are numbered. "only three"  could be  1 (only)    3...................we know there's # 10, 11 and 12 shelter.....so maybe there's a #13 i keep getting pulled back toward the french quarter tho........with the big grandfather clock in the monteleone hotel on royal street, (they say it is the heart of new orleans), you could go straight from there to city park, and there is the hyams fountain there

...yep, the Hyams fountains are still my current favourite for: 1) "jewels abound" text in "jewels to audubon" inscription 2) MCMXIV inscription suggested by 19XIV 3) "Fays delight" appears in quotation: "The fay's delight is to await by the fountain" 4) Statue of boy staring into the water fits with the Narcissus theme for the image. (With the three kids at the other end, could also imagine "three stand watch" and "circle of friends" here.) 5) Hyams link to the St Charles Hotel 6) The apparently regular layout of flagstones around the edge of the fountain provides a possible way to identify a particular spot using references like "fifteen rows" and "in the middle of 21". If it turned out the thing was 21 yards long, or had 15 paving slabs across one edge, it would seal the deal. If the Audubon and City Parks ones are the same, I don't know which it might be though - seems there are matching landmarks all over the place. Giant flowers in City, shelters in Audubon, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Another quick thought I'll jot down because it's pestering me concerns the three Hebrew mother letters , "Shin" being fire (cf story of dragons and shin-seen, P18) and "Mem" being water (cf story on P24, and the footnotes on P25, which talk about "grandfather" [clock] meaning "memory". Reminds me of the Muses idea, their mother being Mnemosyne , or memory. I still like that memorial plaque. Maybe that's all it means.)

it's supposedly 40' by 15 ' ............................... sara lavinia hyams mcmxiv-----22 letters in the middle of twenty minus one from end to end  :) is that memorial plaque on camp street??  'cause i like "camp" for "shelter their heads for a night"  line

slappybuns link wrote:: it's supposedly 40' by 15' slappybuns wrote:: is that memorial plaque on camp street??   'cause i like "camp" for "shelter their heads for a night"  line Cheers...where did you find that...? (...yep, I wondered about that too. It's the Memorial Hall at 929 Camp St...)

it's back on that picture i posted........hold on i'll find it hxxp://www.saveaudubonpark.org/web/saparchive/p4043.htm 2nd paragraph it's on p. 47 of this thread lol, and here now........sorry waiting on coffee

how about this for your mnemonics: at the place where jewels a bound- ---------audubon f ifteen rows down to the gr oun d-----------fount, go, ground in the middle of twen ty-one ----------------- tain   (tion), one, women from end to end ------------------------------------------ten, on, one, end only three stand w atch ------------------------------------------take as the sound of friends- --------------------------------------------------find, side f ills the afternoon h our s-------------------------------four, our, honor, hour, for  (shower, lol, find take shower) here is a sovereign people-- --------------------------------------------people, pole, popp who build palaces to s helter -------------------------------------------here, shelter, three their heads for a n ight --------------------------------------------------git gn omes adm ir e--------------------------------------------------------------------ring, dream, mad, (diamond?) (lol, git mad) f ay's d elight ----------------------------------------------------------------------left the namesakes meeting --------------------------------------------------------------------------(makasine) magazine near this site -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------st. i'll work on it .....it's early........ remember the solved ones didn't go in order ( i think) is there a flagpole near? and sheesh what if this is the wrong verse and it's just saying "meeting" st.......ugh..........no, not gonna go there, 'cause that is pointing to the sundial obelisk at white point gardens on meeting street in charleston 4 pole shelter? audubon ground (go, round) one end take find four people (pole) here git ring left magazine st. audubon go one end take side for people shelter git ring left magazine st. find hour?  from image? 12 o'clock, or take the word jewels from the first line with audubon.....so start at the fountain and instead of "shelter" maybe use the word "here" and "four people"

If you mean the verses for the found casques. I think they did go in perfect order from the Iconic image in the picture directly to the casque location. Again this wordplay is interesting, but before I would even give this minor consideration I'd like to see it demonstrated in the two (three) solved verses. I consider - Houston basically solved or at least confirmed. Take 12 possible solutions- then randomly pick 2 or 3 out of the twelve. That they were all solved exactly in the same manner indicates to me the probability that the remaining 10 will be solved similarly. Of course this view actually makes me argue against Seloy as a valid clue or important clue. So feel free to ignore me and continue about your ideas. I will be happy to be proved totally wrong.

malted,  i hadn't thought of following the iconic images, i just kind of remember someone saying they went to one of the parks and the "verse" didn't go in order......i could be wrong, that's just how i remember it. but i have no problem thinking each hunt might be different and i do feel he might use word play to make it more interesting, like rows might be rose, and i could be totally wrong too, lol but that's okay, i'm used to being wrong, lol there's alot more word play i could have done  with that verse (probably still will). i wanted to put " whe re jew els "  ( wheels ) abound, 'cause of my streetcar (train) theory......i can't look at the image anymore without seeing that train at the bottom, and it's the only place i've seen "namesakes" attached to it (the streetcars)....so i'm still going literally and playing around.... i will mess around with the other verses to see if i can mess them up too, lol i'm glad you're listening

I don't think Seloy was wrong, and I don't think Abbot is either. But there are definitions of the word abbot, and it does not have to mean someone's name. An abbot is also the head of a monastery. A priest. Also, remember that there is a C at the beginning of the previous sentence, which would make it Cabbot. However, that said, I do not believe image 7 goes with verse 5; I believe that verse is much more suited to Image 3, the one which would point to Roanoke Island. John S. C. Abbot wrote a book detailing some information about the Roanoke Colony. This could be a reference like the Sarmiento book.

ck, you aren't convinced verse 11 goes with image 3?  what with "octave" and "dauntless and inconquerable"? this stuff will drive me crazy...ier

if you look at the image upside down, you can tell either side of the clock is either columns or gates, or i can even picture it as the bottom of the hyams fountain

Sorry Slappybuns but I think picking out some letters to fit your theory won't work. You will drive yourself mad. I am having a real problem with the jewels abound part. Nothing in N.O. hits me as being this place. The building palaces reference works for n.o. but for me nothing else does. Sorry. Not trying to put a damper as I am frustrated as well.

ouch lafitte! i really hope that because of the quote from sarmiento that this verse does  go with  image 7 ( preservation, latitude and longitude, storyland and new orleans clock) like forest told me..........to think otherwise is a path to madness ( something like that) i'm gonna keep trying to convince you remember how we thought the arm looked like an archer, look at the diana statue ( i can't seem to find a pic of the whole statue), look at her hand hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/bnorwood/4 ... otostream/ and yes, i'm not totally convinced of my mneumonics, but mostly because i don't think i've found quite the right words.......... i do believe in " abound" for " audubon ", it's such a perfect way to tell the place to me it's not like i'm trying to use all the words......just the ones at the end of each line....which is a way i would use to try to remember something, and the more bizarre or funny would make it even easier to remember like i can see " of twenty-one " ---fontone (fountain) and for " the ground "-- i had used "go or round"-----but it could be " ogden " --------the ogden gates on st. charles.....

" the Gumbel Memorial Fountain -- was a gift to Audubon Park from Beulah Joseph and Cora Moses in memory of their parents, Sophie and Simon Gumbel, a prominent Jewish family in New Orleans. Designed by Isadore Konti, the fountain is of bronze and represents the meeting of air and water. " hadn't read that part b4 but look at these diana plaques with the stars, and with the statues archer hand and bow hxxp://streganola.blogspot.com/search/label/Goddess hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/bnorwood/4 ... otostream/ "the statue itself is a "Book of Shadows" if you will." is this walkway our checks? hxxp://travel.webshots.com/photo/100189 ... txuAkqwWNz this has the same shape as my upside down image of the clockface hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/11213280@N ... otostream/ hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/11213280@N ... otostream/ good view of the back of the fountain hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/11213280@N ... otostream/ i like the fact that popp gardens and diana are close to each other interesting, anna hyatt huntington (sculptor of diana) married "archer" huntington hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/dschex/248 ... otostream/ hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/11213280@N08/4471209533/

slappy, I really don't understand your emphasis on abound vs. audubon . It isn't even a proper anagram. Even if it were a proper anagram, when we get to the point where anagrams are seriously entertained as the way to find the treasure, the terrorists have already won. Look at what happened in the Clock Without a Face discussions.

On a diferent note St Charles ave used to be called Nyades. Namesakes? Slappy, I know the image is N.O.. I am just having a hard time fitting the rest of the verse to it. The St Charles Hotel reference is the only aspect that ties in. The rest is difficult to fit. We don't have a clear starting point and Jewels abound could mean Royal st since their are many antique stores there that sell jewelry. But still, the rest is tough. Don't get discouraged, just don't try so hard to fit your method in when the other 2 solves were not so convoluted. Keep thinking and we'll see what happens.

oh no i've gone overboard again? i guess, because the only place i found anything about "namesakes" was st. charles avenue and st. charles streetcar and also, because bp wrote stuff like oil of L. A. .............that he had fun with words, and i know that audubon and abound or (all)  aboard aren't the same, but.....you guys really think audubon isn't right? lafitte, st. charles namesakes would have another point for it with niads  :) you guys didn't like that sign for popp garden with the flowers on each corner for the clockface? and diana's arm for the arm in the image?? and popp....all namesakes exit or entrance----from end to end

hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/11213280@N ... otostream/

how would you pronounce "cite"? in this sentence: The tiny area thus enclosed was "vieux carre" or as the early inhabitants called it "the cite"........ with an accent mark over the "e" i tend to say "site"...but iis it just saying city?

look how perfect this would have been if it had gone in order hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NOLA_Wards_1880.jpg

I'm sure with the right algorithm we can find the solution to cold fusion within the verses...

Sorry for that last reply... I forgot this thread subject is image related... not verse related.

slappybuns wrote:: how would you pronounce "cite"? in this sentence: The tiny area thus enclosed was "vieux carre" or as the early inhabitants called it "the cite"........ with an accent mark over the "e" i tend to say "site"...but iis it just saying city? more like sit ay

lol cormac  ;D are  most algorithms finite?  if not, we have no hope.  please don't be bringing General Calculus into this image and verse!  we already have Generals: Lee, Jackson, Pike, Beauregard, and no telling who else. General Information Thanks Malted!..............do you think this could be a play on the word "site" ? ;D

umm i forgot, fox said this long ago, about jackson square and the statue.... so these are namesakes references that we know. jackson square and st. charles streetcar. added:  lafayette square and little fays? added:  canal street ferry and fairy? added: storyland (where jewels abound and plenty of fairies, books) just found another one: talking about the hotel maison de ville: "e the hotel's Audubon Cottages, seven units standing sentry over a lovely pool (the first in-ground pool in the Quarter) and courtyard. Namesake John James Audubon lived in #1 while he worked on his Birds in America"

A namesake is basically something that's named after something else, so that could mean half the streets and buildings in the city.  :-\

ugh......that's why i've tried to find something with the word "namesake" on it else it's that algorithm thing, lol

It might refer to the previous lines about fays and gnomes somehow. For instance, you have Morgan le Fay , and Laurent Seguin of the Gnome Motor Company , and the location is near the intersection of Morgan St and Seguin St or something. Henry Clay in Lafayette Square seems a possible reference.

yes, and all that spell brewing voodoo stuff around jackson square...

I'm still liking the three little pigs in Storyland. "Only three stand watch..." Aren't the three little pigs namesakes because we refer to each of them as one of the "three little pigs"?

I have a really hard time believing he would have buried the casques in an amusement park. Even with all his disguises and subterfuge, even in 1981, I cannot imagine a scenario where he could have dug a hole deep enough inside the park and then expected readers to do the same. This is the main reason I don't buy the Storyland idea. There would be children and parents everywhere at any time one could expect to get access to the park. And it ignores the statue found in Lafayette park, where the image of the boy is exactly the same as the image on the clock.  Of course, this backward engineering is almost futile now, as I believe that Katrina pretty much ruined our chances of ever knowing.

Shecrab I agree that it is not in Storyland. I don't believe Katrina ruined our chances. I believe time and new construction did. All Katrina did was waterlog the casque if it isn't tightly sealed. The location has most likely been affected by years of growth and at this point it is difficult to go back in time to the city that Byron visited. The image shows what looks to me to be Louis Armstrong. 1929 is the year the Municipal Auditorium was built. Armstrong Park has been wrecked NOT by Katrina but shoddy workmanship and a greedy ex-mayor.Then we have the Lafayette Square image. Another park that is highly trafficked and after 911 undiggable without causing alarm. This hunt has become overly complicated and I remember Byron wondering why it was so difficult as that was not his intention. I enjoy the ideas that have popped up here but am truly tired of any Katrina references. Perhaps I am being overly sensitive but we live it every day and have to constantly convince people that we are still here. Thank you.

Unknown: I remember Byron wondering why it was so difficult as that was not his intention. I could believe in clock-boy in Lafayette, or equally well in the flowers in City Park, Louis in Armstrong Park, or somewhere else entirely. The problem is that no-one has a clue which, why, or where to dig. I don't think the last 20 years have changed that. Gnomes admire? The middle of twenty-one? The namesakes? The sound of friends? An interesting point, and worth bearing in mind. (Although, if that wasn't his intention, he shouldn't have made it so obscure. I mean, Sarmiento?)

Oh, Lafitte, I meant absolutely NO insult to the city or its inhabitants! I meant only that with the extensive flooding and reconstruction after the hurricane, how could it not have wrecked our chances? The casques that were found were found in places that were relatively untouched by time. I feel the same way about Milwaukee and Boston, actually--those two places were extensively re-done as well. Any time you bury something in the ground, you let yourself in for changes--even when there are no hurricanes to hasten the process--but I don't believe that Katrina could have done the NO casque any good. And 911 has done even MORE to hamper us.  1981 was a very different year. I think our best chances will be to unearth the casques in Florida, Roanoke and Charleston, where there has been far less change over time. It doesn't matter what caused the change, the fact that it's been more than 25 years is enough in most cases to make this hunt more of an exercise than a physical possibility; but when you add in natural disasters, you have even LESS chance. I happen to love NO, and I'm not averse to change, but you have to admit it (change)  was probably multiplied with Katrina.

just in case it's in a golf course..............on p. 16 of city park golf history here you'll see the #15  with "only" 3 , (par = "just" 3 strokes)  ;D  ;D hxxp://neworleanscitypark.com/downloads/nocpgolf.pdf

I think the whole Louis Armstrong thing has been a huge distraction. While yes I agree you could vaguely match the mask up with LA, I think both the mask and if you believe it's LA are just there to say New Orleans. If BP was surprised that these weren't all solved within a reasonable time... then we should just simplify and take things at face value... no pun intended Lafitte... my wife and I specifically went to NO (hence my original posts) not because of this hunt but because NO was my favorite city when I traveled for a living...  K got in the way of us going there sooner, but the delay made it more special being our first vacation (post honeymoon) as a married couple and I was so happy that NO was back in full swing so I could share my love of the city with my bride. I discovered the book just prior to our trip and brought it just in case.  I found the boy statue in an unmarked picture in a guide book, once we found out where the statue was, we took a Garden District Buggy Tour, and the driver took us by Lafayette on the way back.  We walked back to the park and spent a good deal of time there, my wife even pointed out that the girl's dress really matched the ruffles of the flower (the one on the right). That said... I completely agree with Lafitte that K likely did Not affect the dig spot. WhiteRabbit... your comment "no-one has a clue" tells me you have a lot more to read in these posts.  There is some really good insight posted by several individuals here.

Louis Armstrongs statue in Armstrong Park is so close to the mask image that it could pertain. I am trying to match images in the painting with N.O. landmarks as the other solves did. I'm frustrated that I can't positively identify more than the mask, and the boy. Other solves had more identifiers. In 1980 Lafayette square was not as busy as today. he very well could have buried the casque there but where exactly? And if I tried to dig now in a definate spot I fear police would be called. Sigh...

Unfortunately, I don't foresee myself returning to New Orleans any time soon. So here you go Lafitte... For NO, the dig spot i've been trying to get someone to look over (since I can't get there myself) practically has an X on it saying "DIG HERE" The image shows a second hand pointing to the 3.  The exact direction to the wall from the center park statue if looking from the boy statue. The 15 rows and the middle of 21 has already been discussed in the Verse section. Also if you look at the second hand... it is between the inner circle, which I would take to be the concrete circle around the statue, and an outer circle that has markings that could easily represent bricks and mortar. So now we know which side of the wall is more likely. the only problem is how to dig there without getting arrested... especially being that it is right next to a Federal building. Well... HERE IS THE ANSWER TO THAT AS WELL. There is a non profit organization that maintains Lafayette Square, they do clean-ups, weeding, and plantings every other month. If you visit their site you will even see people with shovels in their picture gallery.  There is even a couple resting against our little brick wall. Though it is late in the season, THIS SATURDAY is their FALL PLANTING maintenance event, and they're looking for volunteers. If I lived there or was able to get there, I would: 1. Contact these people IMMEDIATELY 2. Volunteer to help them ... I think they work from 9 to noon 3. Explain to them that we believe BP specifically chose this location, and we would like to search this specific area and document the search, AFTER the volunteer work is done. 4. Suggest that it could be great for park publicity and we would be glad to share our documentation and photos. their website:    hxxp://www.lafayette-square.org/site.php Contact information: [email protected] 504 881 9861 (cell) Lafayette Square Conservancy 625 St. Charles Ave. Apt. 5E New Orleans, LA 70130-3403

great information cormac!  what do you think lafitte??  at least it might get more people in new orleans interested in the hunt!

just wanted to show this pic from the metaire cemetery which used to be the horse track, look at the design of the floor in the last headstone: hxxp://www.neworleans.com/attractions/a ... ourse.html even tho i have been focusing more on the french quarter especially the de bienville monument, because he is the founder (father), french,  11 letters in de bienville.....plus "moyne" ?  one? hxxp://www.inetours.com/New_Orleans/Pho ... tatue.html hxxp://members.virtualtourist.com/m/p/m/de92f/ the harlequin published every wednesday: hxxp://books.google.com/books?id=F3BNAA ... ns&f=false on 106 camp street

Lafitte wrote:: Louis Armstrongs statue in Armstrong Park is so close to the mask image that it could pertain. Very true....BUT.....the statue in Laf Park is EXACT!  If this isn't the park where the casque is buried , which I find very hard to believe, then it HAS to play in somehow on the way to the actual dig site.  Armstrong park is quite far away, when it comes to a travelling hunt...and City Park, as beautiful as it is and with so many 'kind of' possibilities, it is waaaaay too far away. I'm sorry, but I still have to side with Cormac on this one.  I too believe that our casque is right near the small brick wall thing in the middle of the park.  I only wish that I knew about the clock boy statue in Laf Park before I did a little hunting in the NO area.  At that time, I really liked City Park as well and spent A LOT of time walking around the park and actually did a little digging by the sun dial. My vote: Laf Park

Thank you Cormac! Unfortunately I was unable to be in Lafayette Square today but will be in N.O. for Thanksgiving week. I will look around and apply your reasoning to the square.

Also , I never thought Preservation meant Preservation Hall. I take it to mean the Preservation Resource society. Here's a link to what they were doing around the time Byron was in N.O. hxxp://www.prcno.org/aboutprc/history.php?year=1978

Lafitte wrote:: My vote: Laf Park Mine as well.

This photo stream link will give y'all an idea of what N.O. was like in 1979. He's got about 6 pages of photos. Enjoy! hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/fej/page189/

Good plan about contacting the Lafayette Square Conservancy - that could definitely make things easier. Some Thanksgiving digging in the Square sounds like a great idea.

this is exciting!  lafitte, kind of look outside the square a little too, 'cause the hour hand in the image seems to extend to outside the square, ok? i don't mean outside the square, but outside the square inside the square. like where the trees are in this pic: hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/imperturbe/4781387077/

Slappybuns you really lost me. I have no idea what you mean!

I think they mean out side the sidewalk that runs the perimieter  of the square about 10 feet in from the sidewalk along the streets.

yes, thank you malted! guys, i just saw this picture of a Jewish Cemetery in Germany: and remember that harlequin design i found in the Metaire Cemetery? and remember whiterabbit mentioned from the book p. 25, that grandfather could mean old man, spirit, cloud, wise man or just memory? do you think it means something?  i'll try to find that harlequin design again and repost it here. scroll down, last pic on right: hxxp://www.neworleans.com/attractions/a ... ourse.html hxxp://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image ... e794&gid=3 or maybe it's just saying history, like a history museum, the cabildo or the historic district and remember the "spirit of 76" on the allard plantation sign.....spirit....plus a fair folk and i think there is a "76" on the st. louis cathedral sign too..maybe what if it is saying "from the place of memories" (metaire cemetery)......go straight  (like the solved ones) for awhile and turn left into city park, or near the allard plantation sign, or pgt beauregard.... i keep wanting to stay around jackson square because of the extended hour hand and it has pirate alley going from one end of the square and washington artillery park on the other end, and it has the visitor center (for friends) and jax brewery (21)   and the 3 spires on the cathedral.. and the pontalba "row" houses this marker has "21" on it : hxxp://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=21859 or near the fountain in jackson square hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/shawnshoemaker/5114934278/ or maybe the sign for "new orleans" hxxp://www.hmdb.org/Marker.asp?Marker=12679 or for "the steamer new orleans" hxxp://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=13504

not that i don't like lafayette square too (st. charles)........and canal street .........and storyland .........and audubon   .......and armstrong  :)

Breathe, slappy, breathe!

lol!  i know!  but maybe somewhere in all these thoughts there's an element of  something that will mean something to you i wondered too if my train shape (on bottom of the grandfather clock) could be the riverboat or ferry, or maybe the sign for "the steamer new orleans"..........had to get that last thought out I hope you have fun hunting thanksgiving week, take lots of pictures for us if you can!  i know you still like armstrong park, maybe the changes didn't go 3 feet deep.  keeping my fingers crossed for you!

hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetcars_in_New_Orleans Canal Streetcar Line---3rd paragraph,  last line on the canal streetcar line it mentions " end to end the canal streetcar wasn't running in the 80's.........they had converted to buses.....just saying still, the "ferries" could be namesakes and the word "row" could be for boats, and #15 canal street is right down by the ferry boats and it ends at the cemeteries, which could tie in the "grandfather" part but that quote, which i put emphasis on the "st. charles" part.........could just mean st. louis cathedral is a basilica, and maybe "religion" part was important, and "new orleans, this from my notes: the giant squid : I just got back from the library, and I have finally (finally!) identified the source for: "Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night!" It was written by Argentine author Domingo Faustino Sarmiento, who, while travelling in the United States, saw the St. Charles Exchange Hotel in New Orleans , and compared it to St. Peter's Basilica in Rome. The whole quote: "The Saint Charles, which lifted its proud head above the surrounding hills and woods, the Saint Charles, which had called up my memory of Saint Peter's in Rome, was no more than a hotel! Here is the sovereign people who build palaces to shelter their heads for a night! Here is the religion which is delicated to man as man, and here the marvels of art are lavished on the glorification of the masses." and from washington artillery park you could still hear the "ferries"

hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/gratefulhume/3950620792/ i like this fence at jackson square for the hour  hand

what the heck is a "Recollect Monk"? was musing about the "memory" "grandfather" stuff, and thinking about the "Great Spirit, Wakan Tanka"  and thought of the Indian with Bienville statue.  this was the first time i read about the Monk beside bienville....look: hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/2488706814/ RECOLLECT----------------------REMEMBER-----------MEMORY and with the grandfather clock such a big part of the picture

Sorry to be so long in posting but I had a death to deal with. Shocker. Anyway the Bienville statue is out as it was moved from the train station to it's spot now after this hunt started.

thanks lafitte. i'm sorry you had to go through that.

I've been thinking about image 9, and it's given me a heretical idea. The stuff before the images and verses seems a plausible source of clues, and not one that's been ruled out by BP to my knowledge. People generally accept the litany, and why should the map be less credible...? It talks about centaurs for Hellas - OK, so we have a centaur in image 4. It talks about tree fairies for Africa, where we find things hanging off branches, extended roots, and Osceola. It talks about "Korreds", "Dames Blanches" (white ladies) and "Loup Garoux" (werewolves) for France. Image 7 has something that could pass for a werewolf, along with a chequered background and a moon that looks like a "Dame" (draughts piece). Gnomes are identified on the map as coming from the lowlands, so the gnome reference in V2 may suggest that this is the Dutch verse, Sarmiento notwithstanding. Fifteen rows down to the ground on the Dutchman gets you to his cuffs - maybe handcuffs (bound) or bracelets (jewels abound). Following this logic, there might be some overlooked map clue for Image 7 which suggests a different verse.

...just been catching up with the V7 theory for this image and came across another Blanche connection - the mother of St Louis of cathedral fame was Blanche of Castile . She features in a stained-glass window in the cathedral from fave date 1929. hxxp://travelphotobase.com/f/LANVJC/LAN1251.HTM V7 is an appealing theory - shame there's nowhere obvious to stash the thing. The French quarter has got everything going on. Back in Lafayetteland, "The air smells sweet" reminded me of the Sugar Bowl again. (19 complete stars to the left of the moon - left number - and 8 to the right. Might crop up somewhere.)

Unknown: Andrew Jackson (1767-1845), 7th U.S. President, may have been a chess player.  One source (Gerald Leavitt and Tom Standage) states that Andrew Jackson played chess against the Turk chess automaton.  In The American Lion, by John Meacham, Jackson was described as an excellent chess player.  He would sometimes observe his houseguests play chess and frequently directed the moves for one side or the other. slappybuns wrote:: hickory dickory dock, the mouse ran up the clock I was wondering if Andrew Jackson was a chess player. Turns out he was, and not only that...he played the Mechanical Turk. hxxp://www.chessville.com/BillWall/Presidents.htm Jackson's nickname was "Old Hickory". He was a member of the Maryland Jockey Club . On the subject of chess automata, I’ve been puzzled by the somewhat diabolic appearance of the clock-hand, and the “666” which is apparent when viewing the clock-face upside-down. In my fixation on the Turk, I’d completely neglected two other very respectable machines – Ajeeb and Mephisto . Read all about it. hxxp://www.offthewallchess.com/WKRJanFeb11.pdf

Unknown: On the opposite side of the square are three 18th‑century historic buildings which were the city's heart in the colonial era. The center of the three is St. Louis Cathedral. The cathedral was designated a minor Basilica by Pope Paul VI. To its left is the Cabildo, the old city hall, now a museum, where the finalization of the Louisiana Purchase was signed. To the Cathedral's right is the Presbytère, built to match the Cabildo. The Presbytère originally housed the city's Roman Catholic priests and authorities; it was then turned into a courthouse at the start of the 19th century, and in the 20th century became a museum . I'm sold on Image 7, Verse 7, President 7. There's an avalanche of clues that tumbles into this square, but here's my take on the main points, most of it familiar. At stone wall's door Stonewall -> Jackson The air smells sweet Cafe du Monde Not far away High posts are three (Cathedral spires) Education and Justice For all to see Sounds from the sky Artillery Park Near ace is high Aces high, fighter planes, ties in with artillery. Possibly also A. Jackson high on his horse. Running north, but first across In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention Jewel's direction is TURQUOI SE Dates permitting, reference to the steamboat jetty southeast of the square. Maybe the boat crossed the river before going North or something. (The cross might also be a reference to the one on the cathedral.) Giant pole Giant step To the place The casque is kept Dates permitting, the giant pole is this aerial: ...and the giant step is the trip from there along the moonwalk to Jackson. ...the exact location in Jackson to be given by clues in the image and elsewhere. Eg, this Dame Blanche ( Rosmerta ) would be a fitting companion for Narcissus: (Honeysuckle rose, 1929, covered by Armstrong, also springs to mind - lyrics about granulated sugar, being sweeter than flowers, etc.) I believe there are several of these statues (Bacchus is another) but I haven't figured out where they are on the overhead view yet...

jax brewery could fit "near ace is high" ............(someone else said that before, not me) believe others have put this verse here too i don't understand the "666" you see in the image.......but #66 does cross the mississippi on the chain of rocks bridge in guess where..st. louis

(The 666 is the three nines upside down. Just nonsense that reminded me of the devil figure with the anchor on his head.) The four statues are apparently Hesus, Rosmerta, Bacchus and Semele, at the four corners of Jackson somewhere. It's gotta be one of the girls for my Dame Blanche theory. Narcissus is reaching for a flower by a 19, "S" being the 19th letter. I think Semele is the one shown bottom-right, and below. (That leaning tree looks very distinctive.) hxxp://www.ufodigest.com/article/new-or ... -lady-sion Here's a better one of Bacchus. Just gotta line the square up with the the clock somehow... I like this orientation because the three towers are on "III", and the long hand is pointing at St Peter St., which is the right street for Preservation Hall...it's just further along to the north. I'd like to try and figure out where Semele is. If it matched the 19, we're in business.

At the top is the cathedral ("High posts are three") At the bottom is Artillery Park ("Sounds from the sky near ace is high" - XXI = 21) Bacchus is at the top left. One down, three to go. (There's a cute 360deg panorama at www.jackson-square.com . "Contact us if you have any questions about Jackson Square", they say. Did they have any idea about Semele? Nope.)

OK thats the first Ace is high alternative to Highway 1 in California, that actually makes total sense to me.

At first I thought the aces high reference was for Jax brewery. Jacks, near Aces high as in cards.But Stonewall doesn't fit with Jackson Square. Different guy.

Different guy, same name. Like Armstrong. It's all grist to the mill for your average crazy treasure-seeker.  ;)

I've regarded the verses mainly in terms of describing locations, but considering the theory of "the land by the window" for Roanoke, and the suggestions above, I'm thinking of staying with the picture here. Or could be referring to both. For instance, the flower goes with "The air smells sweet". And after the three high posts and the ace is high... Running north, but first across In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention We have the arrow (spade?) indicating "north but first across". With Old Hickory in the middle of the maze, the idea of something running in this direction brings us inexorably back to: Hickory, dickory, dock, The mouse ran up the clock. The clock struck one, The mouse ran down, Hickory, dickory, dock That would make the object of Twain's attention...a mouse. He covered that in Is Shakespeare Dead? "The mouse is missing: the question to be decided is, where is it?" hxxp://www.online-literature.com/twain/ ... re-dead/5/ This being the French image, I keep seeing "Pres E". (I'm not mad on this mouse pic, but it's the best I can do. Two ears, an eye, and the nose.)

I like where you are going with this. however I will say this, in Chicago and Cleveland, once the picture got you to the city,  you could basically disregard it. and then use the verse to show you exactly where to start looking and then take you directly to the spot. after the fact, there were found some specific site confirmers in the pictures, but they weren't needed to solve the location. If the picture were actually part of the path to the casque site. (a visual treasure map) that would be totally different than the other two found casques...

WhiteRabbit wrote:: (There's a cute 360deg panorama at www.jackson-square.com . "Contact us if you have any questions about Jackson Square", they say. Did they have any idea about Semele? Nope.) Unknown: The sole citation I have been able to locate concerning the statues in each corner of Jackson Square is a cursory mention in the Daily Picayune of 16 November 1856: ...The four corners of the square are each encircled with a marble representative of the four seasons, with its appropriate symbolism... Without seeing photographs of the statues and analyzing their iconography, I cannot say with certainty if they were meant to depict specific deities.    Many local 19th century journalists were well-versed in classical mythology, so the failure of the local press to more fully describe the statues is both unexpected and disappointing.     It is clear that, when the statues were new, they were described as representing the four seasons.  Unfortunately, neither the artist’s name nor more specific information about the statues seems to have published. They suggested I contact the 'Historic New Orleans Collection', which I did, and they just got back to me. Doesn't sound like anyone knows anything about these.

I think I have the statue positions figured out now. In the background to Rosemerta we can glimpse the awning of the Cafe du Monde: ...and in the background to Semele I think we're seeing the small building shown in this view: Semele was a moon goddess, which would fit the image of the last line. This could make the verse a description of a journey round the clock face, from one end of the double-headed arrow to the other. * * * * * Changing the subject (well, slightly) I'd wondered about a snooker theme, with cue/cueball/pocket. If you put a 9 in the corner obscured by the mask, to go with the three in the other corners, you get 09+19+29+90 = 147 (maximum break). Doesn't seem like snooker is big in the US though...

.

heres what the book says about the french: From France came the sturdy seafaring Korreds of Brittany; the nomadic shape-shifting Lutins of Normandy, Dames Blanches and Dames Vertes, coquettish maidens from the river valleys of the Aquitaine , Loups Garoux from the forests. All these found refuge from the onslaught of Man upon the chill and rocky northern coast of the New Found Land across the sea. Forsaking the sun-tanned Riviera, water Dracs, p layful-as-porpoises, and the languid, amorous Fadas found contentment upon the hot southern shores of the New World, amidst pink, long-legged birds and high, swaying palms. playful-as porpoises-------dauphins --leaders of france (charles? street?) coquettish maid ens from the river valleys of the Aquitaine-----joan of arc, maid of new orleans pink, long-legged birds-----------flag of louisiana high, swaying---------------flag forsaking-------her countrymen ummm forsaked?  her........lol.........gave her up, or didn't save her anyway this picture of joan of arc has a flagpole somewhere around her, 'tho they moved the statue, the flagpole might still be there. hxxp://www.stjoan-center.com/topics/jcraven.html oh, and also..........mark twain wrote "Joan of Arc" , she has a giant flag pole in her hand (just saying, depends on the verse)

Just revisited the idea of matching V7 and Jackson Square to the clock-face... Running north, but first across In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention The jewel is Turquoi se , so the “jewel’s direction” could be southeast. This is the direction in which Andrew Jackson’s horse is running. Mark Twain’s first book was a collection of short stories called: The Celebrated Jumping Frog of Calaveras County . This was the tale of a man called Jim Smiley who had a dog called Andrew Jackson . “Upon discovering a French translation of this story, Twain back-translated the story into English, word for word, retaining the French grammatical structure and syntax. He then published all three versions under the title "The Jumping Frog: in English, then in French, and then Clawed Back into a Civilized Language Once More by Patient, Unremunerated Toil".” Sounds from the sky Near ace is high (I suggested an XXI before, but this alternative one has a "pres" - French "near".) This square was previously called Place D'Armes . Here's the sign. As far as I can make out, Jackson's horse is facing towards it from the back. (That would put it on Saint Peter's, same road as Preservation Hall, a couple of blocks away.) (Building opposite Preservation Hall)

I do like that arched doorway similarity!

Cheers AP. I've just updated the "crown and flowers" pic. If that thing is indeed in front of the horse on Saint Peter's, I reckon the casque is not far away.

s

(Yo m220m. You still at Roanoke...?)

That's not me...but I did post about someone who worked there once... About the tree etc... Maybe I'll take a trip down that way this summer. Anyway, I removed my post about The flowerbed & stairs across from Jackson Square because I realized that a few peoplw brought that up in the Verse 2 section.

Let me try this just one more time.  ;) I'm trying to find visual matches for things in the images a-la Chicago. Apart from the general form of the golden arch with two golden flowers just below at either side, facing inwards, there are small details here like the way the left flower has three petals, and the slight bulge in the golden dividing line below the centre of the crown, and the crown's narrow border, and the vertical division of the clock hand. And all just down the road from Preservation Hall. So, I'm just curious...do people think this is not a good match, or do they think it does match but the casque is somewhere else anyway...?

sort of just skimming everything whiterabbit, but i do kindof  like trying verse seven with this...........except...  verse 2  has the quote about the st. charles hotel ("here is a sovereign people who build palaces to shelter their heads for a night"  (talking about new orleans).......................... but verse 7 does have: "giant step"  armstrong park  (neil armstrong) jackson square--(stone wall's door) the air smells sweet......? high posts are 3........several possiblities there. near ace is high? an object of twain's attention-mississippi river not sure if you said this, but why not just at the arch to armstrong park?  the jewel is in the arch area in the image...........

Thanks for the feedback Slappy. I thought I'd repost this without any of the other stuff, as a simple visual match; verse-independent. I'd just like people to look at that image comparison, and the comments, and see what they think of it. I'm often reminded to look for the obvious, and with a sign saying "Preservation" just down the road from that one, it's about as obvious as I can get.  ;)

but the flowers, stick, big bad wolf hand, little girl dress cuff  =storyland......... and i would think the blue sky and stars = storyland,  (from the sign in the park) peter pan guy = lafayette park i think.......... the mask= louis armstrong park Preservation=-preservation hall or it could mean history or protecting, saving, support?

I believe I've found most of the elements in the image vis-a-vis Lafayette Square and surrounding area. I have only one element of the verse yet to find for an exact location. It will not be Storyland OR Armstrong park. The girl's dress on the McDonogh statue is similar enough to the cuff around the loupe-garoux hand to make a match. The figure on the clock is not merely similar to the boy on that same statue, it is identically posed except for the costume it wears. The "namesakes" fit for Lafayette and gnome (little person) for that same statue. There are at least 21 trees in the park--but the difficulty is finding what might be considered "end to end" and "the middle", since the park is square and the trees are scattered around that square, not in a line anywhere. The bollards along the path have been dug up and replaced since 1980. The casque will not be in one of the flower beds. Nearby is Gallier Hall, and James Gallier is buried in a tomb in St. Louis cemetery #3, which is next to a racetrack (the fairgrounds  racetrace: Fair- Ground--also a "namesake" for Fey and Gnome, since the word gnome means "earth creature") and the figure on the clock is dressed as a jockey. The scrollwork present in the cemetery is eerily similar to the clock hand, and there is a distinct 3 on that hand (above JJP's initials.)  The animal figure in the bottom of the I. is possibly a horse--hard to tell. Gallier Hall is James Gallier's "namesake" building. It is directly across from Lafayette Square. The only difficulty I've been having is that there seemed to be no "15 rows down to the ground". But I found that today. Just diagonally across from Gallier and Lafayette is Lee Circle--and the monument is circular, at the top of a mound with 15 STEPS DOWN TO THE GROUND at each point of the compass. This presents a bit of difficulty in one way--iLee Circle is a traffic circle and there is almost NO place one might be able to conceal a burial for a casque. Unless one were to maybe dress up like a road-crew worker? (as has been noted in past information). However, if that IS part of the location, then "in the middle of 21 is not in the middle of 21 trees, because there aren't any there at Lee Circle and never have been. I am still researching what 21 might be in that case.

What I'm finding slightly baffling here is that I'm trying to simplify, to focus on the obvious, to look for clear visual matches, since this is what people keep telling me. But now I've actually found one, no-one will comment on it.

Sign for Preservation Hall, a famous New Orleans jazz club. Hmm, sounds a bit like the “Preservation” sign on the clock. Doorway opposite that looks like the clock. Just down the road, another sign. Oh look, a golden flower. And another one! Looks a bit like a golden arch above them… In fact, now I come to think of it, the whole thing looks exactly the same. At stone wall’s door The air smells sweet I wonder what that could possibly mean.

i think whiterabbit, because you are still using verse 7 to get where you are going, and i just can't get past verse 2, with the references to new orleans because without that, and with the hour hand pointing to the "v" and louis armstrong (rhapsodic), you could try verse 11  also........see it'll drive you crazy. that would be really cruel of BP to use a quote from a book about a place (tho we don't know if he means "new orleans" the city, or "st. charles street/hotel") or even if he used a double meaning like "new orleans" /mushroom (hotel) so, you might have the right place from the image, but (as they keep telling us), the verse is going to get you to where to dig can you get to where you are going from verse 2?  (jewels abound/elsian fields road or all the jewels parks above storyland?) but i think that line still gets you to "storyland", jewels abound in fairy tales you do such good map work, can you get us somewhere specific from verse 2? (i'm sorry, i'm stuck with verse 2 here)

slappybuns wrote:: that would be really cruel of BP to use a quote from a book about a place The same book puts Edwin and Edwina in Charleston. So do you connect V6 just as assuredly with I2 ...? It's funny though, because V6 also has a much better-known quotation with a clear connection to San Fransisco. This puzzle has cross-references all over the place, and it's an amazingly obscure source to base two of the solutions around. I'd rather go with something that seems crashingly obvious, like that sign...! OK, I'll leave it now. But if anyone tells me to focus on the obvious again, they'd better look out for flying paperbacks.  ;)

yes i do (verse 6/image 2) that book: abroad in america, visitors to a new nation.....says it all,  immigrations, the point of the fair folks, i think treasure island is about pirates and treasure------and it could point to the author himself.....hopefully, but you are right, we haven't solved any of the others yet, so maybe you'll find something that no one can refute. i'm not a good refuter believe me, if you find "the one thing"  we will jump behind you all the way

WhiteRabbit -- I don't disagree with the Preservation Hall link. And I like the door across the street matching the grandfather clock. But what does all this gain us? There is nowhere to bury a casque near there, and we already know the image is a reference to New Orleans.

(Thanks for the feedback Forest. I know Preservation Hall is old news, but the floral sign at Jackson Square is what caught my attention, continuing the trail a short distance down St Peter's. Take the Preservation Hall doorway plus the sign, add Louis as a symbol of the cathedral, and that accounts for pretty much the whole image. Just to clarify the map, I'm going from Preservation Hall to the sign at Jackson Square, not the other way round. I'm not actually sure exactly where it is, or if there might be more than one.) These lampposts are everywhere. (Yeah, I know I sound like a broken record. I just like lampposts, OK.) Here's a lamppost and a Dame Blanche to boot. I'm in hog heaven. Was it impossible for BP to dig in some quiet corner of this place...?

For the semicircle above the word "Preservation": For the figure on the clock: This is what I'm talking about. FairGrounds Race Track, New Orleans.

Good find. I agree with the jockey interpretation, although I see that being because Andrew Jackson is riding a horse. I like the way the hand crosses the clock face, n'est-ce pas...? (Jackson was mad about horse-racing. He had his own racetrack .)

(...now realised where this sign is, which isn't exactly where I thought it was, so I just want to get some stuff clear in my own mind...) At stone wall's door The air smells sweet Sign at the main entrance to Jackson... ...which matches the clock. (I probably don't need to expand on that further.  ;D) Not far away High posts are three Education and justice for all to see (Cathedral spires and adjacent Presbytere, once a courthouse) Sounds from the sky Near ace is high Running north, Aces high / Artillery Park, just behind you at this point. ...but first across In jewel's direction Is an object of Twain's attention Andrew Jackson, who appears in Twain's first book, riding due southwest as seen above. (Was getting my directions in a muddle with that Turquoise thing.) This direction is confirmed by the clock hand, mapping Jackson Square to the clock-face with "III" as the three spires and "XXI" as "Ace is high" (21), or Artillery Park. (Ignore the red "B".) It's pointing towards St Peter St., which is where Preservation Hall is, further north. Giant pole Giant step To the place The casque is kept If "high post" refers to the cathedral spire, then maybe "giant pole" does likewise. With the moonwalk nearby, it sounds like a hint for Armstrong -> Louis, so I'm currently thinking this is a move towards the cathedral. Maybe that's the sense behind: Running north, but first across * * * * * The chessboard layout gives the moon the semblance of a white draughts-piece, or as the French would say, a "dame". The French fair folk include the Dames Blanches, or white ladies, of which there are a couple in the square, like the one shown earlier near this lamppost. (I don't really like the idea of the last couplet springing miles away, though if it's an impossibility for casque-concealment, I suppose taking bearings from it would be the next best thing. I'm loathe to leave such a rich source of visual inspiration behind. As far as I'm concerned, Preservation Hall and the Plaza d'Armas sign are undeniable, and while the hall could act as some kind of generic "New Orleans" signifier, I think its disguised neighbour on the gates of Jackson puts things in a different light.)

The Giant Squid wrote:: Jackson Square: 1) Give it up. Please folks. There are literally thousands of people walking by and through there every single hour. It's like digging in Times Square. 2) Lots and lots of police. 3) And, not many places to dig. Several patches of dirt, sure. 4 statues in the corner, plus Andrew Jackson in the middle. 4) There no visual cues from the image anywhere in the common environment to point me to that spot. Unknown: The New Orleans Municipal Auditorium (now defunct, but a splendid piece of architecture) faces Congo Square. The front of the building has the words: "Commerce, Art, Music, Theater, Athletics, Industry' written across the front. Also, in a very digging-friendly area, there's a grove of 20 live oaks, secluded, just to the west of it. (Not good enough) Giant pole Giant step To the place The casque is kept As I was saying, if "high post" refers to the cathedral spire, then maybe "giant pole" does likewise. With the moonwalk nearby, it sounds like a hint for Armstrong -> Louis, so I'm currently thinking this is a huge leap north down St Peter's. Maybe that's the sense behind: Running north, but first across Agreed, the casque couldn't possibly be in Jackson Square. Always said it was a stupid idea. Although, I would take issue with (4). So, now for that giant leap north (past Preservation). Only potential spot that way seems to be Congo Square. Guess I might take a look anyways. Like Armstrong shedding his booster stages as he ascends heavenwards, we've at least managed to ditch a bunch of used symbolism. Just about the only thing left unaccounted for in the Congo are the stars.

New park then, for me anyway. Start by rehashing the obvious stuff... (That's probably about as far east as I'll look. I'm not interested in drifting off into general Armstrong Park territory after following St Peter's so carefully.) Thre's a bit more than the moon and stars. There's the clock-hand, with its devilish character - though that might just be Congo's voodoo connections - and bike-like shape. (Wondered about GG/TT in the last four lines as horse race, TT being a motorcycle race, though I don't know if it's well known in the US.) The Congo sign itself is a bit clock-arch like, though I'd rather not recycle that. And there's the cuff. (Previously suggested the Toulouse-like styling, Toulouse being the adjacent street to St Peter's...I think that cuff outline might crop up someone round here...)

ummm that GG  in the last four lines could be Golden Gate    ;D hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/franciscophile/64363061/

(Still dawdling by this archway, since the Armstrong reference is what gets you here in the penultimate line, and I'm running out of road. The stick measures five squares on the chessboard, or the number of blocks from Jackson to Congo.)

Unknown: Thre's a bit more than the moon and stars. There's the clock-hand, with its devilish character - though that might just be Congo's voodoo connections - and bike-like shape. That clock hand has the artist's initials: JJP the first J is oriented the correct way, the second is backwards, and the P is in the middle.  Above that is an anchor. I realize he signed the painting below on the left, but I think this hand is just a "vanity" bit. A red herring.

Ah yeah, I like that...he sneaked his initials in there. And yes, there's definitely an anchor. It does also look quite bike-like though... (The other reason I mentioned motorbikes is that this always reminded me of a speedometer...)

Giant pole Giant step To the place The casque is kept The two streets heading northwest either side of Jackson are St Peter and St Ann. I thought these stopped at Congo, but now realise they carry on all the way to City Park, stopping and starting occasionally. Most of V7 seems to describe the view towards the cathedral from the gates of Jackson, before plunging forwards in a "giant step" in the last few lines. How giant is giant though...? Both sides pass visual pointers. St Peter's goes past Preservation Hall, while St Ann goes right through that white archway above. "Armstrong" could mean you've arrived. (Giant leap incidentally also ties in with the Twain/Jackson reference which concerns a champion jumping frog. And there's the raised "A" on the arch which is reminiscent of "ace is high"). But then again, maybe it's just a confirmer that you're heading in the right direction. Quite like this spot where they reach the river, for instance, since I'm currently on the lookout for space-travelling clues in the top part of the clock. At this point, St Ann comes out next to this pole and step. River. French. Frog. Hmm.  ???

An alternative interp of the clock hand and elements: The clock hand scrollwork is similar--not exact, but similiar--to the scrollwork on the gates at the Fairgrounds race course: and the Moon/Stars at the top of the clock is a repeated symbol throughout New Orleans, although the moon is not a full moon, but a crescent moon. It appears on the Police department badges, and on the manhole covers. Note also that on these manhole covers, the words "water meter" appear--and the two small circles on the clock hand DO look like meter gauges of some kind. I am still trying to find some "21" for V. 2. I believe that is the V. that goes with this image; it is the only missing piece--but it is the final one. The FairGrounds Race Course seems rife with possibility, but I cannot find enough pictures and information on line to do much with. Also, it was very heavily flooded during KAtrina, and was closed for a year. That may have hampered some of the 1980's features.

However, there are four things that stand out about the Fair Grounds that make me believe it could be a location. (1) The words "Fair" and "Grounds" are two synonyms for Fay (Fey)  and Gnome. Fey, or Fay, means Fair. Gnome means "ground dweller". Namesakes meeting near the site. (2) The gates scrollwork is, as I've said, similar to that on the clock hand--and there is a jockey statue right in front of the gates. (3) The general shape of that gate post is very much like the clock in the Image. (4) The checkered background on the Image--could be a visual trope for the Checkered Flag that starts and ends races. You might also note that two relatively famous race horses are buried on the infield. And there is a HUGE jazz festival there every year--with musicians who were and are notable at Preservation Hall (as well as other places in NO.) So that is a tie-in also. Not to mention the horse's head in the lower right corner of the Image.

shecrab wrote:: The clock hand scrollwork is similar--not exact, but similiar--to the scrollwork on the gates at the Fairgrounds race course I like the gate. Wondering about this section of water as a shape in the cuff. (Clock-boy also kind of looks like he's swimming.) Fairgrounds is upper right. (The cross marks the steps I was looking at where St Ann reaches the river.) Toulouse St is shown below in red, at the base of this blue squiggle. (He painted various jockeys .) I was interested in the way Toulouse runs parallel to St Ann, which is the one that goes through the white Armstrong arch I associate with the mask. Maybe you could say the point where St Ann hits the river is 29 streets down from where it starts at the Jackson flower sign. Running north, but first across In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention (The thing that's running north could then be St Ann. Twain wrote about her in Life on the Mississippi . New Orleans has a shrine for her.)

Here's a comparison worth looking at: URL=hxxp://img31.imageshack.us/i/racetrackcomp.jpg/] [/URL] Again, it is the Fair Grounds Race Course. I'm beginning to think this may be the place.

shecrab wrote:: (4) The checkered background on the Image--could be a visual trope for the Checkered Flag that starts and ends races. Most...if not all...horse races do not have a checkered flag at the beginning or end of the race.

Horse racing does seem to be associated with checkered flags though. Regarding their origin, "one theory is that horse races during the early days of the settlement of the American Midwest were followed by large public meals, and that to signal that the meals were ready and racing should come to an end, a checkered tablecloth was waved."

Unknown: Most...if not all...horse races do not have a checkered flag at the beginning or end of the race. Yes, I know. But RACING does. A checkerboard pattern is just one of those symbols that says "race". It's also symbolic of a chess board, and we all know that one of the chess pieces is a horse.  However, you don't have to go far to associate the checkerboard pattern with horse-racing. Secretariat, famous triple-crown winner, wore blue and white checkerboard patterned regalia and his jockey wore the pattern on his silks.  This would have been something known quite well in the late 70's, since Secretariat won the Triple Crown in 1973--and arguably, Secretariat is maybe one of the top 5 best-known horses in the universe.  Next to Mr. Ed, of course.

shecrab wrote:: Yes, I know. But RACING does. A checkerboard pattern is just one of those symbols that says "race". It's also symbolic of a chess board, and we all know that one of the chess pieces is a horse. Yes...that makes a lot of sense.

The checkered design on Ponce's shirt opposite seems to blend into this one.

(Slappy, do you know if JJP did any other field guide illustrations except the Stylus Devil...? He also signed some at the front, but it's the only one at the back that I've noticed. It falls on pages 90/91, which correspond to two of the numbers on the clock. The trident resembles the clock hand.)

tupperwerewolves p. 137, the checkered tablecloth and bowl of sugar and mustard, moon, window, golf balls mugwumps p. 147  toothless face with marionette strings and balloons and posters and podium with politician the tax burden  p. 215 the guy with the money bag tied to his back with a belt, and the music notes or 76, and money,paving stone or chalk board behind him? that's just a fast run thru, k? always thought it was the stylus devil in the shadows on ponce's horse.

hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrygian_cap red capped and liberty loving fays----------- sure looks like the dwarves at storyland (2nd picture with the dwarf and storyland sign) hxxp://4theloveofben.blogspot.com/2009/ ... -park.html

Just finished doing an exhaustive stretch of work on this image and V7.  Took me awhile to get a good pic of the Joan of Arc at the original location. I liked the Twain connection and the way the hand holds the stick with mask Joan style. Then I drifted for awhile having never looked at a map of New Orleans before.  Got into researching the military career of PGT Beauregard and then I pretty much found most of what White Rabbit had already posted.  Lots of suggestions to Jackson Square, but I'm getting the idea that Congo/Armstrong is somehow a better choice.  Gonna have to sleep on this one for a few.

Oh how soon we forget...

Education and Justice?  That's a perfect fit.

fox wrote:: Oh how soon we forget... Not all of us forgot.

hmm, was just looking at my last post and noticed for the first time that the overall shape of that statue looks a lot like a castle or rook in chess....this image does have the chessboard background.

From my chess days I remember Paul Morphy was in New Orleans.  There is a lot of morphology in this hunt.  I remember seeing a guy with a bat saying "Morphy was black".  Don't know if that was true.  Must remember to research that.

Okay, finished dabbling in some Morphy research.  He lived at 417 Royal St. across from the courthouse and past Louis and Toulouse streets (if coming from Jackson Square)...reminds me of the stick and mask (Louis Armstrong and the Toulouse styled clothing). I'm compelled to look for Beauregard links, and it was reported that Morphy may have applied to the General's staff and may have been used in some capacity during the Civil War. The home is now the location of Brennan's restaurant.

Thought I'd take a crack at this today.  Allowing a rotation of 90 degrees on the image I found some basic shape and name elements to put things into a perspective that might help someone out there. A is the Superdome, which looks similar in both upper and lower images B is a "berm" the lower image and is Behrman Memorial Park in the upper image C is freeway and bridge over the canal D is the Bread Lady of New Orleans which compares closely to the center of the clock's short hand The "jewel" and center of the clock seem to me the most location inspired spot and is associated with the Bread Lady near it's hub and the jockey who is poised to "slam dunk" something off in what would be the southward direction.  South of the Bread Lady is Coliseum Square Park.  It has an interesting clock gear shaped pattern actually. Don't know how reliable this source is, but Wikimapia has this to say which connects with the jockey: Looking at google earth's street view of Coliseum Park I see this one strange tree towering over the rest, is it a palm?  This may be a silly notion but it sure seems like BP found ways to cross reference ideas in the other images, ref. palm in Image 6. On another note, and I'm drifting from any Morphy chess playing references, the single hand holding up the stick and mask resembles raising a glass in "toast".  This gels with the Bread Lady clue.  Also, "preservation" may be thought of something we do to avoid spoilage from mold or "yeast".  The lower right hand area that I've labeled as a "berm" is much in the shape of a risen loaf of bread.

More on this "bread" theory:  The first words of verse 7 "at stonewall's door" and "the air smells sweet" remind me of a brick oven with fresh baked bread or the pizza in this image, The mask on the stick is possibly analogous to a baked good on a spatula and the clock an oven hearth. An old stone wall oven such as this exists at the Hermann-Grima Historic House, hxxp://www.hgghh.org/hg_house/kitchen.htm It even has a door... I found a Twain quote on New Orleans food: "New Orleans food is as delicious as the less criminal forms of sin." -Mark Twain, that might be a pointer to the Margaret Bread Lady statue, "an object of Twains attention".

Wow, I'm freaking out with excitement on this one simply because a substantial theme is at play: dough. Margeret Haughery = Bread Lady = dough Education/Justice = J. McDonough = --D--ough Ace is high = casino (the Rivergate) = money = dough Jockey's arm has a foot = "arm and a leg" idiom = too highly priced = money = dough Andrew Jackson = twenty dollar bill = dough Starry Night = van Gough = rhymes with dough... Someone mentioned the Doughboys but I don't know why...good war reference.  Isn't that a monument statue in Ohio? Edit:  the choice to reference to Andrew Jackson comes from a Tree reference that comes to mind when looking at the clock "hickory dickory dock" the nursery rhyme seems to work with "old Hickory".

Paul Morphy = Polymorph? Grandfather Clock = Bakery Oven? Paul M. = Palm? That McDonough statue doesn't make sense as a chess piece... If Preiss thought the same thing he may have thought of an oportunity to utilize a palm tree. Edit:  Morphy = (M) orphans?  That works with the philanthropy angle. Or, a palm orphan...what if the palm in Coliseum Park is the only one left?

I was wrong about the map overlay having a strong match in just one way.  There are several characteristics that work, like the moon as the Superdome, or the arm-hand-stick-mask fitting the Fair Grounds Race Track.  The hands match parts of the Margaret Park area and the circular arc of the clock matches a fountain in Coliseum Square Park.  The street names seem to follow the imagery with St. Louis and Touluse.  "Preservation" quickly becomes a label for the Jazz of New Orleans, but might also be a good way to say any "historical marker", saved or preserved space.  Coliseum Square has such a past as it was planned to be made into a race track but instead preserved as a community park area.  The same could be said for almost any park, really.  Now that I think the jockey is holding a baseball mitt, I'm really unclear on what that has to do with a location.  I see a "Race St." next to Coliseum Square Park.  If I go with a good strong baseball reference, I'd say Tulane Stadium, which was demolished, just north of the Audubon Park.  It fits the Olmstead design, but I don't know how strong that kind of fit is.  More thinking to be done...

Go back to page 57 of this thread. I've suggested the Fair Grounds Race Course there and provided pictures and correlations.

Something tells me it could be in a mound in the tracks center or the tracks location is i mportant geographically.  Does anyone have an idea what the "19" on the clock represents? The clock has 3 hands and the jockey has 3 feet (unless one is a mitt).  What could that mean?

erexere wrote:: Does anyone have an idea what the "19" on the clock represents? It's part of the lat/lon quartet. Read backwards à la Image 4.

erexere wrote:: "Preservation" quickly becomes a label for the Jazz of New Orleans, but might also be a good way to say any "historical marker", saved or preserved space.  Coliseum Square has such a past as it was planned to be made into a race track but instead preserved as a community park area. I think of Preservation Hall as a visual thing like The Bowman or the Water Tower, included either as a general pointer for New Orleans, or because it was something you might come across near the trail. I see your point though. I did previously wonder about the plaque and flags at the Confederate Memorial Hall, for instance, interpreting it in that wider sense. (This is between Haughery and Lafayette.) The masks in images 2 and 7 are like a nod to Masquerade. A hoax...? For reference, here's a map showing Haughery, Memorial Hall, Lafayette (all on Camp St), and the spot where Joan of Arc was at the time, at the end of Canal St. Coliseum Square Park is a bit further down Camp St to the south. I like that it's surrounded by streets named after the Muses. Eg, Melpomene, who is represented holding a mask. (Nine Muses, three nines on the clock. Clock-boy is looking at 9.) If this was V2, then the park looks about 15 blocks down Camp St., and is bordered by these concrete posts. Guess it might be worth counting them, though the edge of the park is overlooked by houses. The northern section is vaguely suggested in the clock... (That shape seems to be like a theme running through this puzzle. It could also be read as a clue for this part of New Orleans. Circle indicates the park.) ...or... Doesn't look very practical. This is the view of what would correspond with the turquoise in the clockface. I'm losing the plot now. Interesting spot though.

Thanks for tossing around those ideas WR.  I wonder about the two arcing arrows pointing to Preservation.  Why point to that spot in clockwise AND counterclockwise direction?  That terrace work in the park has a "giant step" look to it.

Although I've focussed on V7 with this image, I think I'd have to go along with the V2 consensus for this part of town because of Camp St and the Sarmiento quote. Grr, there's a trash truck parked right in front of my turquoise.  :P If you interpreted the blue semicircle of the clock as that concrete bed, you could use the moon to locate the gem. Alternatively, you could take just the inner gem and use the clock hand pointing to the middle of it. Heck, it's only small. Just dig it all out.

I do like the link to camp and sarmiento.  The more I read the verses the more they start to bleed ambigous.  Ovetones of theme are persistent yet Preiss is finding subtle ways to use them to specific purpose. This is why I am attempting to pickout crossovers in verses, either an entire line or just a word or two that help frame the context to any of the other locations.  Some verses are more detailed in direction than a coresponding image and the reverse might be the case as well...I can't imagine any verse isn't primarily attached to a specific casque.  A line or word I can work with...more would inspire too much chaos.  Was just rethinking verse 5 and "arc of lights" where it chimes with Joan of Arc as an example of crossover. I know that garbage truck well... WR, is that raised plot or step of grass semicircular??  I thought it was square.

The top part looks oblong, but I thought the lower part looked semicircular...it has rounded corners, anyway... Here's an aerial shot of that path that surrounds it. (Turquoise can be blue or green.)

erexere wrote:: Was just rethinking verse 5 and "arc of lights" where it chimes with Joan of Arc as an example of crossover. (V2 Jewels abound, V10 Cars abound. I'd previously wondered about cars/arcs.) And here's another shot of those Coliseum arcs.

WR, the top of the clocks arc shape is almost too general a shape, as always you're doing a great job lubricating the forum with your ideas. The two confirmers for me are the near perfect proportion of outer to inner circle shape of the fountain to the circular face of the clock and the portion of the arc that is clipped by the jockey is perfectly proportional to where the two walkways veer off to the northeast and southeast.  I'll get that visual later if you don't already have it queued up.  I didn't realise we had muse names for streets...how can we know those were named that in 1980?

erexere wrote:: I didn't realise we had muse names for streets...how can we know those were named that in 1980? These are very old names for those streets. I looked up some 19th century maps online.

The google earth image is NOT under any rotation, just zoomed enough to match the curve.  P7 is rotated 90 deg counter clockwise: Fountain in Coliseum Square

I'm thinking of using V7 for this after all, starting at Jackson and ending at Coliseum. You can get from one to the other with only two or three streets, passing near most of the landmarks along the way. The trek would be based around Peter and Race. The object of Twain’s attention would be St Peter’s (where Joan was canonised), which he describes in Innocents Abroad . hxxp://www.romeartlover.it/Twain.html#Pietro St Peter…Peters St… It’s confusing. There’s St Peter St, which runs east-west alongside Jackson. Preservation Hall is on St Peter St. Then there’s nearby Peters St, which runs north-south. At stone wall's door The air smells sweet Not far away High posts are three Education and Justice For all to see Jackson Square, sign with castle and flowers, Café du monde, St Louis cathedral etc. Sounds from the sky Near ace is high Artillery Park. “Near ace” perhaps foreshadowing “near Race” Running north, but first across In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention From Coliseum Park, you can go east along Race St., then north along Peters St until you’re nearly at Jackson. At this point, the road seems to become Decatur…though Peters St continues again once you’re past it. It’s a bit of a mess frankly. But I’m thinking of this section as describing Race St and Peters St. Peters St, the object of Twain's attention, runs north, reached via Race St which runs across eastwards, in jewel's direction (turquois E ). You traverse these between Jackson and Coliseum. It's a bit back-to-front, but no one said it was going to be easy. Giant pole Giant step To the place The casque is kept The giant pole would be the “high post” of St Louis at the beginning, and the giant step would be the “turquoise” area of Coliseum Park at the end after a giant trek south. Although it’s quite a long way, the route is actually quite simple, and passes near various landmarks including the Jackson sign, Joan of Arc, Lafayette Square and Memorial Hall. Preservation Hall and racing also feature. (It might seem perverse to wander in such V2-friendly territory without using V2, but I think BP deliberately mixes things up and drops obscure clues into other verses and images. Like I've said before, it's a very obscure clue. So obscure as to be a pretty unreasonable basis for the puzzle imho. I'd prefer to give it an additional, more face-value interpretation elsewhere.)

The most consistent interpretation seems to involve street names.  I didn't know there was a Race St. until you pointed it out, WR.  Shecrab's visual confirmer of the Stick and Mask matching up with the Fair Grounds might only mean "Race" street.  Similarly, the Mask isn't a pointer to Louis Armstrong Park, but an instruction to travel or pass St. Louis street.  WR, I'm compelled by your St. Peters street reasoning and I am beginning to catch on to the LAS T letter method. What are all the options now for 'high posts are three'?

WhiteRabbit wrote:: At stone wall's door The air smells sweet Sign at the main entrance to Jackson... ...which matches the clock. Not far away High posts are three Education and justice for all to see (Cathedral spires and adjacent Presbytere, once a courthouse) Sounds from the sky Near ace is high Running north, Aces high / Artillery Park, just behind you at this point. ...I see that as a Jackson thing...

Here's the Bing version. (Wonder how many of those circular divisions there are.)

WR, that grassy semicircle looks tempting.  Any way to narrow things down to a spot on that raised lawn?

...yeah, it reminded me of the Cleveland setup, though that particular bed might be too exposed. I have a tendency to leap on things I think I see in the picture and say: "It's there!" But even if it is in the picture, it might only be a clue to the general area. This park is my favourite spot for New Orleans at the moment though. It's near enough to Lafayette for clock-boy to be seen as a clue, but it looks a better place to dig.

Polymnia St. could be our "giant pole" with POL-ymnia.   In this case, the street Polymnia intersects with a line to the center of the fountain in Coliseum Square.  Perhaps we are to protract through it to the other side somewhere to a spot that also interesects with a line to the "giant step".

Perhaps this is a chess piece or McDonogh statue silhouette.

WR et. al, I have had luck with my recent FB campaign and the sister of a friend living in NO would like to head over to CS within the next week before they hop on a plane to visit Oregon next Wednesday.  As it's likely our experience, methods, opinions, and instincts differ, I'd appreciate any particular direction or input that I may convey to my contact so they can give it their best shot.  I'll repost my most current ideas shortly just to run things by the community before moving forward.  If you prefer, please PM me or email me at [email protected] if you'd like me to consider anything in particular concerning the park area.  Thanks.

I received an email from a friend who visited NO last week, and here's what she had to say about it: Well,  New Orleans was a bust.  We visited Jackson Square, Lafayette Square, Lee Circle, Armstrong Park, City Park (which is mammoth!!), Harlequin Park and Tourmaline Park without anything really to get us there or keep us there as confirmers go.  Lafayette Square is the top contender just a few blocks from the site of the old St. Charles Hotel (the palace), there are three statutes in the park (three stand watch) and Lafayette (Fays' namesake), but that is about it.  I will need to do a little more research, but we could not find anything to really solidify a good lead anywhere.  City Park is larger than Central Park NY--I don't know what gets you there and once there its so big, what in the picture or verses points you in the right direction???    We did check out Harlequin and Tourmaline Parks because of (In the place where jewels abound)  They are parks nestled into streets with jewel names (roughly twenty of them, I think).  But these are small, one block size, open green spaces with maybe one small out building, few trees and no markers or statues that abut up to backyards of a residential neighborhood.  I can definitively say, these two parks are not the places.  Have pictures of things that I'll post later.  Beautiful botanical gardens at City park and a cool sculpture garden too---nice day out, just not a lucky day. This makes me believe that perhaps the race track is going to be more important. Not only are the gates reminiscent of the clock hands, but the clock figure reminds me of a jockey, and the space inside the track is the same shape as the mask/stick; the checkered background suggests jockey's silks and racing in general. There are three race horses already buried on the track's infield (3 stand watch). Also, the arrows around the clock face might suggest "going around in a circle", i.e, racing.  There is not a lot of information and photographic research material on the net for this location, but someone one the grounds there might be able to associate something for us. I love Lafayette park as the location--or I did--but it's so small and so empty of other confirmers I'm starting to doubt it's usefulness. The "namesakes" could be "Fair and Grounds" (fay and gnome) for the racetrack. I think this merits further research.  I could see the casque being buried near the grandstand (15 rows down to the ground) but what would the "jewels" be and the "21" from end-to-end?

I received an email from a friend who visited NO last week, and here's what she had to say about it: Well,  New Orleans was a bust.  We visited Jackson Square, Lafayette Square, Lee Circle , Armstrong Park, City Park (which is mammoth!!), Harlequin Park and Tourmaline Park without anything really to get us there or keep us there as confirmers go.  Lafayette Square is the top contender just a few blocks from the site of the old St. Charles Hotel (the palace), there are three statutes in the park (three stand watch) and Lafayette (Fays' namesake), but that is about it.  I will need to do a little more research, but we could not find anything to really solidify a good lead anywhere.  City Park is larger than Central Park NY--I don't know what gets you there and once there its so big, what in the picture or verses points you in the right direction???    We did check out Harlequin and Tourmaline Parks because of (In the place where jewels abound)  They are parks nestled into streets with jewel names (roughly twenty of them, I think).  But these are small, one block size, open green spaces with maybe one small out building, few trees and no markers or statues that abut up to backyards of a residential neighborhood.  I can definitively say, these two parks are not the places.  Have pictures of things that I'll post later.  Beautiful botanical gardens at City park and a cool sculpture garden too---nice day out, just not a lucky day. This makes me believe that perhaps the race track is going to be more important. Not only are the gates reminiscent of the clock hands, but the clock figure reminds me of a jockey, and the space inside the track is the same shape as the mask/stick; the checkered background suggests jockey's silks and racing in general. There are three race horses already buried on the track's infield (3 stand watch). Also, the arrows around the clock face might suggest "going around in a circle ", i.e, racing.  There is not a lot of information and photographic research material on the net for this location, but someone one the grounds there might be able to associate something for us. I love Lafayette park as the location--or I did--but it's so small and so empty of other confirmers I'm starting to doubt it's usefulness. The "namesakes" could be "Fair and Grounds" (fay and gnome) for the racetrack. I think this merits further research.  I could see the casque being buried near the grandstand (15 rows down to the ground) but what would the "jewels" be and the "21" from end-to-end?

WR, you're fountain pic has what looks like a drinking fountain off to the side that looks very unusual to me.  Perhaps it's a common design in that area, but it did remind me of the jockey's funky hand and funky buttock...that's right I said buttock.  My brother in law calls that a 'bubble butt'. Look at this slight manipulation of the fountain in segments and how it resembles the jockey's buttock and legs. some kind of alignment with this fountain fixture might be what is needed. I thought the fountain base looked a lot like a black chess pawn, btw.

How about getting Jackson and Lafayette into this...? At the place where jewels abound The Place D’Armes, Jackson Square, with nearby visual confirmers including Preservation Hall and the flower design on the gate. Fifteen rows down to the ground Fifteen streets down, passing Toulouse, St Louis, Canal et al, to Maestri St., bordering Lafayette Square to the south. Robert Maestri was a mayor of New Orleans. “He inherited his father’s furniture store at an early age, and quickly built it up into one of the city’s largest. After investing in real estate, Maestri was able to amass a considerable fortune. He also had political ambition, and after allying himself with governor Huey Long, he was appointed to head the state’s Conservation Commission…He served as conservation commissioner from 1929 ” 1929 is the date on the clock. Conservation / Preservation…? In the middle of twenty-one From end to end Something bordering Lafayette maybe... Only three stand watch As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! Etc etc Gnomes admire Fays delight The namesakes meeting Near this site Gnomes of Zurich…? The Swiss Consulate is nearby at 322 Lafayette. Or maybe there was a Swiss bank in the area. Re: the middle of twenty one, may be worth considering the various 11s and 21s on the clock... Unfortunately Google Maps won't take you down S Maestri St. Alongside is the F Edward Hebert building, with art deco eagles and other paraphernalia. I've packaged up my theory as a PDF file and bundled it off to the Lafayette Square Conservancy to see what they think... hxxp://www.lemontiger.co.uk/images/misc ... ayette.pdf

I've had two beers...consider it an early celebration.  I really like your theory WR.  Best of luck on the response.  Its shoveltime!

Cheers Erexere... Currently wondering ways in which the clockface might be interpreted as a Lafayette map. There are  decent street views available on Bing, eg here's S Maestri... ...but the clearest overall view of the park layout I've found is from Google Earth... I quite like the hand pointing to 3 as one of the paths leading to a circle on the map. Wondered about the mask as below, but don't think so. I'm still interested in the possibility of reading "XXI" as "21". Eg, clock-boy might be looking at the dot in the middle of this one.

Cheers Erexere... Currently wondering ways in which the clockface might be interpreted as a Lafayette map. There are  decent street views available on Bing, eg here's S Maestri... ...but the clearest overall view of the park layout I've found is from Google Earth... I quite like the hand pointing to 3 as one of the paths leading to a circle on the map. Wondered about the mask as below, but don't think so. I'm still interested in the possibility of reading "XXI" as "21". Eg, clock-boy might be looking at the dot in the middle of this one.

just an observation the overhead view of the park resembles an hourglass...

Okay, i'm doing some routine research based on a date and great events in the chess world.  Going with idea there is a chess motif in this image and "stonewall" (verse 7) is a well known chess defense, i recalled Anderssen-Kieseritzky in London in 1851.  Yes, I know it seems totally obscure but I did study this game and it made a comeback in the film Blade Runner.  Lightbulb...ah heck, Preiss didnt borrow this reference from the 1982 film...outside our timeline...but I continued to research to discover the chess game wasnt written in the films first draft of the screenplay either.  The film was an adaptation of Phillip K. Dick's novel Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? and after thoroughly researching the 1968 book my friend had in his library I discovered the famous queen's sacrifice wasnt referenced there either.  ...so, this image has a clock, "Preservation" written on its face, and a hand that looks like that of an undead zombie...is this a theme about Immortality?  'The Immortal Game' is what Anderssen-Keiseritzky is called.  In 1954 scifi fantasy writer Poul Anderson wrote 'The Immortal Game' and in that short story he refers to the great chess match. IF it is plausible that Preiss would be into reading fantasy scifi magazines from the 50's, then we might have a possible window looking into his inspiration for part of this puzzle. Note: I'm not arguing against the use of Preservation as a reference to NO's Jazz hall.

Zombie=Immortality seems a bit of a stretch. Zombie=Dead... or UnDead at the outside. (all though you will find the Term Undead wasnt used like it is today back then. until recently Undead = vampire)

No need to go with zombie specifically, thats just word choice.  But undying and immortality is the idea.  New Orleans is big into celebrating the dead right?

well, I definitely get Zombie from the image, Immortality, not so much. however the whole Image screams New Orleans to me...

Unknown: Zombie=Immortality Zombies aren't immortal. They can be destroyed easily enough. They aren't even alive . Immortality would preclude that something had already died, even once.

Yes. They prefer to be called "Undead Americans", rather than "Immortals", for scientific accuracy, as well as to distinguish themselves from Vampires.

...well, we should at least see if there is any zombie activity in Armstrong Park. Perhaps the idea was to go with antithesis.  Clock = Time vs Timeless, Hand = Undead vs Everliving?  Maybe a kind of Miller Analogy Test? Preservation is often applied to the dead, esp. the Ancient Egyptians with the belief that you should look your best and have lots of bling in the afterlife. So what is that bulge in the lower right corner?  Is it a mound, a rampart, a loaf of rising bread or what?

Back to the numbers 19 29 90, we are confident 29/90 are lat/long, but the 19?  How about the Armstrong Elementary School atg 5909 St. Claude Street (McDonogh #19 school)?  We have a lot of Armstrong stuff here...arch, mask, school 19.

I like it. Can't ignore that mask. There's been talk about how BP confirmed there was a casque in St Louis, but I wonder what he actually said exactly. If you want a casque in St Louis, which of our other locations are you going to abandon...?

WhiteRabbit wrote:: There's been talk about how BP confirmed there was a casque in St Louis, but I wonder what he actually said exactly. hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/h ... 487#p85487

Thanks jimerson. "Very impressive work esp since the book is 20 years old.  I think you deserve to know that you are correct about St. Louis, but not correct about the location. Thanks for all your excellent work." Possible confirmation from a puzzle-setter for a trail that starts at St Louis cathedral then. Just heard back from Robin Riley, the architect behind the Louis Armstrong arch and park. He's indicated that he's happy to help, and has already made some interesting observations... "The masque held in front of the clock is a Mardi Gras masque—so, maybe there's a connection there. Not many people know I named the arch the "Mardi Gras" arch because floats (caravans with revilers) traveling to the Municipal Auditorium, in the park, would pass through the arch. There is a moon on the clock face. A connection to "Moon" Landrieu, the mayor who initiated the park project?"

I'm looking at aspects of the image as they might suggest street names or general areas in New Orleans.  I'm chewing on the idea of the arm being a clue about 'lower' since it is raised up it indicates there is someone below.  It's pointing at the clock face in the general direction of the IX or 9.  Is this a clue about lower ninth?  I'm still looking at the 19 29 and 90 numbers, and so I've been sifting through ideas a based on the date 1929 (I understand that the 29 is best as a lat. #, but I wonder if it is being shared between the 19 and 90. In 1929 the Pope Pius XI beatified Claude La Colombiere.  St. Claude is part of the lower 9th ward.  Are the larger more familiar of the visual clues, places like Preservation Hall and the Arch, indicators of where we start or closer to where we end while looking for the casque?

The best ideas I've heard for the 19 so far are 91 reversed (coordinate pair with 90), 1929 date for the Municipal Auditorium in Louis Armstrong Park (apparently the destination for the Mardi Gras floats passing through the arch), and your McDonough #19 being Armstrong school. I think it's a simple trail from Jackson Square to Louis Armstrong Park. (The route is down St Peter's, past Preservation Hall, which accounts for the Twain reference - he wrote about St Peter's in Rome in "Innocents Abroad". Interestingly, Sarmiento also wrote about St Peter's - he compared the dome of the St Charles Hotel to it. Can't remember where I found the quote now - not sure if it's included in "Abroad in America".) The tricky part will be finding someone willing to try digging for it...

i'm somewhat expecting the "face" motif or "arch" type structure to be nearest the casque and within a block or line of sight area.  The roman numerals seem like a stronger clue than just being numbers on the clock.  The reverse space on either side of the clock looks like it composes to be in the shape of the McDonogh statue with climbing Clockboy.  Hmm, that's two image references for McDonogh and the "19" being shared as an Armstrong/McDonogh school for a third reference. What are those flowers all about? I think there's a levee wall matching one of the sides of the clock outline.  I need to look closer. okay, it does look very similar, the levee wall west of Jourdan st next to the inlet with two rising bridges...or is it a locke? Something more interesting to me is the clock hands, the small hand looks like it's more of a 15 than a 3 (III).  I think it's a clue to something related to or in Algiers (15th Ward).  I just read that McDonogh owned most of that land. The bulging sections in the background of the clock might represent the bulging banks of the river against the levees.

Maybe that bulge idea is just our clue to look for Canal St.

TIME magazine printed an article in Jan 1962 on the McDonogh Three (III).  I haven't read the article but the Wikipedia bio on Armstrong suggests that the aid of Federal marshals came to those three school children just six days after Armstrong openly criticized the poor handling of racial integration by canceling his deal to be used as a pawn in politics concerning the Soviet Union when we were so poorly handling our own affairs with people within our own borders.

erexere wrote:: What are those flowers all about? Unknown: Growing up in New Orleans, I remember what an honor it was as a student to be chosen to participate in McDonough Day ceremonies.  In his will, philanthropist John McDonough donated land for schools to the City of New Orleans with the condition that each year school children would lay flowers on his grave. erexere wrote:: TIME magazine printed an article in Jan 1962 on the McDonogh Three. Unknown: On November 14, 1960, three six year old African-American girls were escorted by US Marshals into McDonough 19, an all-white elementary school on Saint Claude Avenue in the Lower Ninth Ward. The story of another girl, Ruby Bridges, who desegregated the William Frantz School, is well known, but the history of Leona Tate, Tessie Prevost Williams, and Gail Etienne Stripling - who, in climbing 18 steps into McDonough 19, took a mammoth stride forward in the battle to desegregate Orleans Parish Public Schools, has been largely overlooked. Fifty years later, the contribution the "McDonough 3" made to the Civil Rights Movement was publicly honored. I've posted about these flowers so often people are sick to death of hearing about them. It's the start of the trail at Jackson Square I tell ya... Though the ones in City Park are pretty good too. I'm sure McDonough is the key to this pic one way or another. Heck, maybe all the Louis Armstrong Park stuff is an elaborate clue back to Lafayette. It's an interesting connection anyway. Yeah, I was reading about them earlier... Wish I could find a list of these McDonough schools...they're hard to track down. What about McDonough 3 and 12 for instance?

For reference, I found a list of some of the McDonough schools here... hxxp://www.old-new-orleans.com/NO_McDonogh_Schools.html

Oh dear.  I don't really know what to think anymore.  I think I have made a new discovery.  The 19.  Pretty much the only time Mardi Gras happened on the 19th was in February of 1980.  This date and the other two corner numbers 29 and 90 as lat/long puts us in New Orleans on a specific day.  The clock reads 12:00 and the little line that points just a smidge before the III is actually a perfect line of direction for the Sun's rays at noon, precisely.  I carefully researched this and here is a map.  First, it's important to consider that the whole image gets rotated 90 degrees counter clockwise such that the Louisiana Superdome matches the position of the full moon on the clock and the center of the clock face is on the McDonogh Statue in Lafayette Park. Map with Solar position for Feb. 19th, 1980 I took some time to consider what position BP would've taken a photo in order to have the specific angle on Clock Boy.  Looks to be just in the background or east and a bit few steps north statue.  The photo here is presented from a west looking east perspective. Many things about this image point to this specific statue: Clockboy, the circle and inner circle of clockface fits ring surrounding statue, the negative space on each side of clock is a split outline shape that can be wrapped to look like the statue silhouette, the verse has lines that fit also.  It's basically the BIG focus.  But then other things detour or just might represent area identifiers, like Preservation and Armstrong.  The thing that throws me most is the shape of the hands fitting the layout in the area of the Margaret Haughery statue just a ways south on Camp St as you leave the Lafayette Square. Giant pole Giant step Could this verse be more of a clue suggesting "Giant PULL" as in the Sun's gravity, and "Giant step" as in jumping to the top of a shadow? The Sun elevation is 48.53 degrees, and east to west azimuth is 174.73 degrees.  I don't know how tall the statue is, but as long as it isn't over 18ft tall then the Sun's shadow will be cast within the flower plot circle in the ring that extends to 16ft from center.  I don't like this solution much for the outcome...someone digging up that kind of turf is not going to go over too well.  Grrr.

no proof of this at all but in the chicago and clevland images there were site confirmers in the picture, things that you could see from the burial ground. (or right behind it) I think clock boy is a burial ground confirmer...

The bulge on the lower right corner might just be the large mound upon which sits the McDonogh memorial.

maltedfalcon wrote:: no proof of this at all but in the chicago and clevland images there were site confirmers in the picture, things that you could see from the burial ground. (or right behind it) I think clock boy is a burial ground confirmer... Thank You Mr. Falcon

Giant pole Giant step Seems to tie into what Clockboy is doing, he PULLS as the girl below STEPS.

fox wrote:: I have also fealt that it is indeed a horse/rook on the squared background-chessboard... which may point to Paul Morphy, one of the all time best chess players. hxxp://www.academicchess.com/Focus/Morp ... ybio.shtml Fox, you had this idea like 7 years ago...you know the Morphy home became the Current location for Brennan's Restaraunt in 1954? At Stonewall's Door / The air smells sweet has got be nothing other than a double entendre for Stonewall Jackson and the Stonewall in chess followed by Brennan's sweet cooking.  Clocks are used in Chess.  The default position is 12:00.  I mentioned Andersson-Kiezeritsky in 1851 as a key motif about immortality involving a Queen sacrifice forcing a black Knight to recapture at white square f6.  It doesn't carry much weight in this, but I like the " local color" since most any chess book compilation of greatest games will have that game and many of Morphy's games.  The style of play in both is hugely similar although Morphy is freakishly better.  He beats Andersson as white in a KGA with ease while then KGA is Anderssons bread and butter. I feel the McDonogh statue is a Queen and the it is a black Knight on a white square on the lower right bulge in image7. Reporting this to emphasize the negative space split and it's shape of the McDonogh, I've probably over researched this.

Personally I think the Knight/horsehead/dragonhead, is rudimentary map of Lousianna spun upside down.

Mophy's headstone is in St Louis 1...(circled with Mardi Gras arch.) Brennan's is a more interesting connection...though its location doesn't point obviously at any particular park... Mophy is also associated with the Beauregard-Keys house at 1113 Chartres St, but that doesn't seem to help much either. hxxp://blog.neworleans.com/2011/03/paul ... ss-master/ hxxp://www.bkhouse.org/Visit.html

Let me preface this by saying that I DO NOT believe a casque is in Nashville. However, I was driving through downtown Nashville today, looked up, and saw this: This is Mercury (or Hermes, depending on your inclination), affixed to the top of Union Station. Striking, eh? So I'm wondering if our "jockey" could be mimicking the pose of another Mercury statue somewhere.

forest_blight wrote:: This is Mercury (or Hermes, depending on your inclination), affixed to the top of Union Station. Striking, eh? So I'm wondering if our "jockey" could be mimicking the pose of another Mercury statue somewhere. The Knights of Hermes... kinghts. Made floats since 1937 for the Mardi Gras Parade... floats. How many plays on theories is that idea? LOL. BTW, that photo is remarkable.

He is floating isnt he?  I did some of my usual sloppy searching in trying to find the float routes but I got very confused when it looked like they change it up year to year.

forest_blight wrote:: Let me preface this by saying that I DO NOT believe a casque is in Nashville. However, I was driving through downtown Nashville today, looked up, and saw this: This is Mercury (or Hermes, depending on your inclination), affixed to the top of Union Station. Striking, eh? So I'm wondering if our "jockey" could be mimicking the pose of another Mercury statue somewhere. Here is the parade doubloon of the Hermes Krewe of New Orleans Mardis Gras. Ive had a lot of fun researching art and history with this.  I like the idea of tracing a parade route.  Ive still been interested in joan of arc since the way the hand holds the stick and that she was 19 at her trial, but i also like the idea that the 19 represents the mardis gras date of 1980.  Another notion is her vision interaction with three Saints has me looking at a deeper notion.  There is a Toulouse statue c.1475 at the MET called Margaret and the Dragon.  That is the same Saint [checked] that came to Joan of Arc.  I wonder if that moght be the reason for the dragon head in the checkered background. I want to consider either the Hermes krewe or the Zulu krewe.  Zulu chose Louis Armstrong as their king in 1949.  Hermes raises a flag to the Greek influence that many images seem to share. I like St. Louis cemetary no.1 at the intersection of St. Louis and Basin as the namesakes meet.  The Zulu parade route ends shorly after that point up on Orleans Ave. after passing the cemetery. I like the three statues on Basin as the "only three stand watch". The clockboy looks deformed.  His hand looks like a foot or a loaf of bread.  His butt looks like pronounced or at an odd angle.  Looking loosely at his image i think i see what looks like a clock tower outline nested in his torso.  I wonder if thats suppose to be the tower of St. Jude nearby, but seen from the back angle from the North. What im getting at is it seems that i have competing ideas that both fit loosely with my location near the cemetery.  Also, the parade routes pass in front of the McDonogh monument at Lafayette Square.

I'm going to be mean and call it coincidence.  ;D (Despite the general similarity, I don't think it's close enough to justify pulling in something with no obvious connection.)

Im crushed....yeah Im leaning towards Coinincidence, but watch me make it fit. Lol

You know what, though, I'm looking at Mercury in a Google image search, and I'm thinking that, yeah, Palencar might well have been acknowledging that - I mean, it's just as likely as that "Mona Lisa" thing. A nod to classical art. Whether it actually fits into the puzzle somehow...well, who knows. But consider this... hxxp://linkmercury.com/wp-content/uploa ... ercury.jpg ...and take a look at P210, which I believe is also by Palencar. Mercury is associated with the Caduceus .

I think what it signifies is that the statue of the boy in the park might not be as unique a shape as was previously thought.

Not really, where all of these look similar the statue of the boy in the park looks traced. I've seen nothing that would make me look elsewhere.

Yeah, but isn't the big problem with that park, that it would be very hard to dig in without being noticed?  If the image really is referring to that statue, then the casque is either in that park, or it's probably nearby.  That statue isn't one of the "big" confirmers like the Chicago Water Tower or Cleveland's Terminal Tower -- it's more on the site-confirmer scale.

I say clockboy is about a major parade route passing through.  The terminal tower is a reverse image of the top only portion of the building hidden in the branches.  The McDonogh statue shape is revealed as a reverse image split in two wrapped from side to side outside the clock's entire form.  In that way it's very similar to the TT. I think there are misleading aspects to the clockboy.  Being a jockey disguise brings us to race track history which is a rich part of New Orleans past.  I think there is something disguised within that disguise.  What do you think?

I agree with BigMattyh  it seems to fit the pattern of a site confirmer. which fits in with the methodology in Chicago and Cleveland. We expect site confirmers to be in the image, In the other images, the theme is simply to lead us closer to the casque and city. Reading more into it than that probably is leading us further from the casque.

I don't like this fit so much since the tower isn't shaped exactly.  I just wonder if JJP's attempt to disguise the clock tower of the church in the image force a small sacrifice in how he drew the roof less pointy. St. Jude is the oldest original church still standing.  Its recieved some updates but has never been burned down or been totally reconstructed. Im still Waiting to verify that this church maintained plot records to the cemetery across the street.  That might be an easy solution to a person being without a reference to what could be the #21 tomb.

so where other buildings are more or less exactly drawn in this search your suggesting he arbitrarily changed this one to disguise it...

maltedfalcon wrote:: so where other buildings are more or less exactly drawn in this search your suggesting he arbitrarily changed this one to disguise it... Not sure, donno.  I think it's like many things in these images.  Even the columns in Cleveland were shorter looking and altered from a true perspective.  Somethings are stylized for a reason. I'm not saying it's an effort to disguise them.  I think it's not necessary to have exactness to convey an idea or marker.

the columns match exactly, however they are not the two columns mentioned in the verse. they are the columns on the back side of the wall from the casque.

I never understood why this is considered exact rather than just similar.

Here we go, in 1931 the oldest krewe, Comus, held a theme that year named "Jewels from Byron".  No kidding! They disbanded in 1992 for refusal to sign a petition on anti-segregatory practices.  I havent discovered what their route was in 1980, but chances are good that it remained true to its historic run starting somewhere between Dauphine and the Levee, perhaps Royal, then St. Charles to Lafayette Square and over to Camp St., then west on Julia and north on Carondalet through to Canal. It really seems fitting to go with a Comus inspiration.  The image surely works around the city.  The moon is the Superdome on Julia.  The Clock hand looks a match to the Margaret Haughery area on Camp.  The clockboy fits Lafayette Square on St. Charles.  Comus ends on Canal where jewels abound as a dense double array of triple-lit street lights and intersects with Basin where the first of three stands watch.  The third stands watch at the other end of the Basin jaunt at the St. Louis street intersection with the St. Louis Cemetery No.1 (namesakes of Saint Louis meet).  I'm rather excited about the 15 count of tombs constrained between the alley and Basin street wall just inside and northeast of the gate entrance of the cemetery.  Tomb #21 peaks/peeks over the wall and so It can be seen from outside the cemetery standing in the middle of Basin St.  I think we are to stand at a spot almost orthoganal between this tomb and a line connecting the statues on Basin.  The Morazan statue isnt centered on Basin like the others.  Its just a bit north of the centerline and interestingly it fits the slightly early to the III position the thin little hand makes on the clockface.

Unknown: Yeah, but isn't the big problem with that park, that it would be very hard to dig in without being noticed? No, the park is bigger than you think. And the outer edges on all four sides are tree-covered. That's actually the bigger problem. Where there are large trees (as there were in 1980) there are large ROOTS. it's not easy to dig through those. Also, there isn't any OTHER confirmer in that park besides the McDonogh statue and the "three stand watch" (three statues only.) There's no "middle of 21, from end to end". There's no 15 rows down to the ground. There is (was?) a brick wall--but that is an unlikely place to hide the casque--it is rather out in the open. There's a maintenance shed in one corner, but it's not clear whether there are "rows" or anything that would count 21. And the casque is not buried in one of the flower beds--all of which have been dug up and replanted since Katrina (as have some of the trees.) In Lafayette park, the walks and the bollards along the walks have all been redone and replaced. Several art installations have been added.  New flowers and plants have been put in and benches installed. This park was severely impacted by the hurricane and has been almost entirely redone. You can see what has been done, what there is yet to do and peruse the map of the park here: hxxp://www.lafayette-square.org/uploads/MasterPlanrevised1208.pdf

This is how I think of the clock arms helping us find the spot, Or the idea that clockboy is facing away from the jewel center of the clock and the line about "three stand watch" meaning "three stands watch".  I noticed Benito Juarez' statue faces away from my proposed casque location.  Maybe that's the reason clockboy is in that spot with is head lining up opposite the arm pointing to the III.

erexere wrote:: Here we go, in 1931 the oldest krewe, Comus, held a theme that year named "Jewels from Byron".  No kidding! How is that for our "namesake"?  BP put his own name in the V.

erexere wrote:: I'm leaning towards coincidence, but watch me make it fit. Mercury vapor lamp . Interesting how Image 1 and Image 7 are connected not just by the dragon head, but also by Mercury (Hg)...which makes perfect sense, since the SF casque is beside a Mercury vapor lamp as well.  ;D

fox wrote:: How is that for our "namesake"?  BP put his own name in the V.  ;D Oh, i didnt think of that, i suppose that works.  Too bad we dont know more about the Comus route path in '80-'81.  I got my information from a couple 19th century clippings at NOLA.org and read that the oldest krewes maintained the same basic routes.  Comus took some years off in the 1890's and lost their preferred slot to another krewe but they still maintained their status as a major elite krewe when they returned. I certainly think its worth noting or looking into further that Preiss had a penchant for using firsts, oldests, greatest, tallests, or otherwise significant but obscure references.  How big was Melville?  What first chapter is verse 9 about?  Comus was the first Krewe in the new dawn of parading in 1856 New Orleans.  I think there are some strong links to be discovered in his process. The "19" on the clock continues to cause me wonder.  I want to think its Feb.  19th Fat Tuesday, which occured only on that day of the month in 1901 and 1980 as far as 20th century years go (excluding 1985). Finished going over the John Milton's Comus poem.  I'll say nothing identified with the verse.  Only there was mention in in an article of a quote of Milton calling the work "a Mask". When it comes to considerations about what looks like a good site, I really don't think it matters.  Preiss used whatever stealth or discretionary means available to bury these boxes.  We'll have to muster similar means if necessary to recover them.

I'm comparing the clockboy torso with the current look of the St. Jude clock tower next to it's old tower. Below I'm looking at the slight changes in texture and minute shape changes to the columns for image4.  The platform relief has less edging and column is smooth compared to scalloped.

and yet they still look like columns... I dont see the steeple at all.

maltedfalcon wrote:: and yet they still look like columns... I dont see the steeple at all. Okay so you haven't looked closely at the columns yet to see the variation.  Yes, they both look like columns, but the point raised was about the distinction of something being exact verses being only similar, which is probably only artistic license. I didn't like the steeple comparison that much either.  Here's a larger view of the perspective from where I think the casque is buried on Basin St.  I feel that it just makes sense.  It is a distinctive church and I especially like the theme of "helping children" in it's association with the St. Jude's Children's Hospital.  McDonogh helped children with Education.  Haughery helped children with Food and Shelter.  St. Jude's helps children with medical needs.  Using that logic causes me to look more closely for some kind of confirmation that this is the right idea.  Clockboy is the child in Image7, it seems fitting that his torso bears a resemblance to the backside of the St. Jude Church. So it looks like it's not the steeple as I originally thought.

Bigmatty reminded me about the danger of rotating images to fit confirmers.  I thought it was understood that the clockboy was pre-rotated by JJP as it came from the boy figure on the McDonough Monument.  I'm glad for that reminder, because when I took the image without rotation I noticed a helluva lot more things fit.  There's the obvious circular shape in the middle, representing his bubble-booty, and I think that fits the oculus of the rear wall of St. Jude.  Then there is the small line extending from the hand to the leg.  Then there is the overall line of the boy's flat belly front torso matching the straight edge at the top of the wall. [No rotation.  Point of view from casque site.] I keep meaning to call the church to find out if it had been the main records keeper of the plot numbers back in 1980, or was there a more involved process of contacting the Archdiocese office.  I'd like to know what exactly would've went into figuring out which tomb number belonged to the Rouelle family in a pre-internet time. hxxp://cml.upenn.edu/nola/Searchpgs/L0I ... PNTHNOC=21

As best as I can tell, the Krewe of Comus ended their float parade at the Grand Opera Theater near 900 Canal St.  That is right in front of the "White House" ...i forget the French for that...a business with this mascot: (nice find Jambone) I discovered that I didnt read this thread prior to working on image 7...wish I had, I wouldnt have had to dig so much to find most of the stuff that had already been discovered.  I was really stuck on the Coliseum Park and McDonogh schools theories...also the Morphy-ology and Andrew Jackson Horse track connections. What I have landed on now is based on Mardis Gras, its older Krewes, Comus and Zulu, passing the McDonogh monument, identifying Only Three stand watch and deciding if St. Louis cemetery at St. Louis street and Basin St. is a suitable namesakes meet.  I think the raised oval shape in the lower right corner with the dragon/griffon/gargoyle head on squares like a chess board is representing a site of burial plots.  Hmm...crazy. The color subtext is interesting.  White mask of a black musician.  All white Krewe of Comus ending their route at Maison Blanch.  The McDonogh Three being a famous example of racial integration and having a tie to Louis Armstrong (citing news saying the a Federal Marshalls only escorted the black students after Armstrong criticized the President and decided he would protest by not playing music at a diplomatic event for the Russians).

Unknown: "White House" ...i forget the French for that la maison blanc

Enjoyed reading this about Comus and Proteus having a special moment on Canal St. hxxp://tinyurl.com/77y9aqw

The claim that the clockboy is exact is to the McDonogh boy is inaccurate.  Four things are going on here.  1. He's dressed like a jockey  2. His right hand above his head has no definition and looked initially like a foot or a loaf of bread...i ealize now its a Bingle paw  3. His bottom has an ambitious curviture, lovingly referred to as a bubble butt in Zumba class... and 4.  The partial shading of his torso and one thigh along with the small line that might be mistaken for a finger extending to the other thigh. Son of Bingle?

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Interesting how Image 1 and Image 7 are connected not just by the dragon head, but also by Mercury (Hg)...which makes perfect sense, since the SF casque is beside a Mercury vapor lamp as well.  ;D I never thought of hG(mirrored) being Hg.  Surely a snug fit with SF's Ghirradelli sign, but there is no harm in thinking it is a nudging hint that one of the other puzzles will have a Chemical theme.  Perhaps it wont specifically have to do with Mercury but I'll be damned if the Son of Bingles doesnt serve as an archetypal Hermes reference.  Perhaps the triangle in the sphere of image 4 is that nudge that a triangulation will be used in one of the puzzles.  Perhaps also a sphere or dome (half sphere) is essential to another.  The arch of image 4 looks like an exact match to Sam Huston's statue base.  Image 4 is like a Rosetta Stone, despite how easy the solution to Cleveland has been presented.

I found some "X"s last night quite near jackson square/artillery park/cafe du monde/moon walk. Anybody still looking in this area? Or are you all more set on the area being the starting place of a path? 3 days later... Chirp, chirp ... well i'll just throw this out there then regardless... if you go down 15 rows, there are 21 of these; any interest?

Yes, I do think that area is the solution. If you use verse seven to start at DuMonde and walk the mile along the river towards the (now) casino you will get to the boat dock. I strongly believe that the solution was across the street of that spot where 'Liberty Place' used to be. It was a Giant Pole (and although) it was in the middle of a busy street, the greenry of the street island provided exactly one direction to take a giant step from the pole and land on diggable earth. Sadly, the street, the pole, and the street island have been recontrusted or moved since later in the 1980's. I have a well documented trail of photos on the threads here (probably under verse seven) with street views and original obelisk shots. The boat took you to a Mradi Gra factory across the river and there was a large masked sculpture beconing one to board. I'm sure you would be staring at it when you were digging up the casque.

forest_blight wrote:: Let me preface this by saying that I DO NOT believe a casque is in Nashville. However, I was driving through downtown Nashville today, looked up, and saw this: So I'm wondering if our "jockey" could be mimicking the pose of another Mercury statue somewhere. In my sabbatical from searching Boston, I've been looking into New Orleans. I've learned quite a bit (why I love hunting ) and found a lot that I think is worth sharing... my fingers are just so tired after work nowadays. Anyhow, this just hit me... The equestrian statue is the first of the first three standing-horse sculpture in the United states as you probably know - so popular, it was triplicated (three stand watch) by the sculptor shortly after its birth. It was an incredible architectural feat. Without going into details as to why, I've thought the "clock boy" might be Jackson, a jockey holding his hat up. Anyhow, one of the other two replicas is is Nashville.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Without going into details as to why, I've thought the "clock boy" might be Jackson, a jockey holding his hat up. Comme ca...? None of them are exact. The general curvature of McDonough is hard to beat though.

I think its important to see the clockboy as a figure which is floating, flying, sailing, like he's leaping across rooftop to rooftop.  The comparisons of him to upright figures or horseback positions takes away from that perspective.

truthfully, I only meant to point out an interesting tie-in to Nashville. i really don't think Nashville will have anything to do with the solution. it just never ceases to amaze me how much information we aggregate, and then find commonalities within. it is just interesting that the closest match to clockboy is in Nashville, and for some strange reason, the equestrian statue also "leads' there. another oddity/interesting fact i learned while searching near ace is high and new orleans, was that the first airplanes to circle the globe, three of them (the fourth crashed), was three planes that did it together in 1924... named New Orleans, Chicago, Boston, and the Seattle (which crashed and never made it). it's all just super interesting to me, but I usually try not to post irrelevant information.

I think we must link the jockey in the picture to gambling and then link a few elements to the game of roulette.  With that, everything falls snugly into place.  Anyone care to guess what those elements are?

There are good similarities between the classic and antique roulette style table and the image7 clock. The stick and mask may have been necessary to represent the croupier rake used to clear the chips off the table. I really like the reverse pairing of the sides of the image to represent the older style spin-tower. Well, there might not be any hat eating on my part, but I better start cleaning up the mess I made with so many of my errant theories. R.I.P. Pizza Oven Theory R.I.P. Paul Morphy Theory ...

This is my theory for the New Orleans treasure. I dug at where I thought the treasure would be and found nothing even though I went almost four feet down. Looking back I still believe I have the right area I just think I missed the exact spot. I know many people are in agreement that verse 2 belongs to  the New Orleans image. When I first saw this it didn't sit right with me. I believe that verse 7 is the key to that image and here is why. Verse 2 seems to fit better with the solution to San Francisco. (I will detail that solution on that thread) The stone wall line in verse 7 either refers to a real stone wall or stone wall Jackson. Following the directions from the stone wall statue in New Orleans I get to city park. It seems more likely that verse 7, with its southern theme, belongs to New Orleans. So from stone walls door, the air smells sweet. At first I thought it meant the bayou right in front of the statue was the sweet smell. After visiting new Orleans I can tell you bayous are anything but sweet smelling So that must reference something not there anymore or the flowers of the cemetary. Not far away high posts are three Education and justice for all to see Sounds from the sky near ace is high One of the most convincing pieces of evidence to me, that this verse belongs to new orleans is that down the street from the statue are the new Orleans police dept and Delgado Community college. They are literally right next to each other. The sounds from the sky line refers to an eagle statue on the corner of canal and city park. Its a memorial to a test pilot jimmy wedell. Plotting those three "posts" takes you to the corner of city park and Marconi/Orleans. Running north but first across. As you can see this lead right into city park and Story land. Many of the visual clues I saw come from story land. The dragon, the boy, the flowers. Then on Anseman ave and Dreyfous dr there is a very big and old flag pole. More coincidence? In Jewels direction is an object of Twain's attention Giant pole...etc This is important because it tells you where to dig. I dug north of the pole right after the side walk. I found no treasure and I have two theories. Either the side walk was shorter in 82 and redone or the object of Twain's attention is not story land and could be the grand Mississippi, which is south. I'm inclined to believe the first because when I tried to take the giant step from the flag pole base, I didn't land on the grass but on the sidewalk. The width of the side walk is very wide. I am not short and the friend I brought with me is even taller so the sidewalk could have been altered. Either way I am working on verifying.

Wow, so industrious! Possibly in support of your theory: Marconi (whom you mention) was the man who invented the radio (i.e., sounds from the sky). There is a memorial to him in San Francisco at the base of Telegraph Hill.

forest_blight wrote:: Wow, so industrious! Possibly in support of your theory: Marconi (whom you mention) was the man who invented the radio (i.e., sounds from the sky). There is a memorial to him in San Francisco at the base of Telegraph Hill. That's a real gem of a connection if it ends up not being just about seagulls.

rookhunter wrote:: The sounds from the sky line refers to an eagle statue on the corner of canal and city park. Its a memorial to a test pilot jimmy wedell. Aces high - test pilot - stone eagle. I like that. Reminds me of the photo of the other stone eagle in the back of the book. There's a description of it here .

The mask, stick, hand, and sleeved arm reaching up from the bottom of the image have settled in my mind in a very particular way.  There are many other details to sort out from the image and verse, but I'm just addressing this one set of visuals. Mask = Statue in a Park = Louis Armstrong Statue in Louis Armstrong Park. Stick/Hand = Symbolic of a Street name = Joan of Arc's statue holds her flag up high like that, she was canonized in 1920 in St. Peter's Basilica (Sarmiento's quote likens the Charles Hotel to St. Peter's) = St. Peter street. Sleeve = Street Name = the artistic style of Toulouse = Toulouse street. Arm descends = Casque to be found near the next street following the previous steps: Mask, Stick/Hand, Sleeve = St. Louis Street.

Been verifying my facts after my friends had their wedding at this location a couple weeks ago. All I can say is, some facts verified, progress looks good. This is the aerial view, a bit old and out of date but most accurate with c.1980.  The No.21 tomb building's apex lines up with this spot centered in the plot of four palm trees.  The other line connects the three statues along Basin St in this "neutral ground" street area. Citizen's may apply for permits to plant new trees in neutral ground areas.  Four additional trees have recently been added to this spot as seen in this street view pic.

erexere wrote:: Citizen's may apply for permits to plant new trees in neutral ground areas.  Four additional trees have recently been added to this spot as seen in this street view pic. Great apply for a permit to plant a tree there and dig a big hole.

I have no plans to dig.  I'm trying to connect with a few different folks.

After reviewing this past year and as I make plans for this year, I revisited my NO search and found some interesting tidbits of info I thought to include here. While I rethought my approach, I took a different direction in my interpretation of the verse. I searched north on Marconi and found this: It looks like the base of an old flag pole with no pole. It stands infront of an empty field where something once stood. I need to investigate as to what was there. I also mentioned in my last post on this thead that I theorize the sidewalk was not as wide in 82. Looking at some of the parts of the park that look really old I find that sidewalks in other parts of the park are narrower. Right next to where I dug I see this: It appears that they made the side walks wider. I verified that they improved 4 miles of side walk in the park but no specifics as to where. I will keep hunting and hopefully I will get another crack at this one.

Image 7 sends a strong message saying "masquerade ball" with the midnight clock and the white mask on a stick held by the hand of a fancy dressed arm.  I asked the question, who is firstly famous for their balls in New Orleans Mardi Gras history?  The answer:  COMUS. The face of the mask is the likeness of Louis Armstrong.  Perhaps it represents the statue of the man, or it simply represents the man.  The word "PRESERVATION" is written on the clock.  Preservation Hall was a Jazz club formed in 1961.  Louis Armstrong was a great Jazz musician.  I believe Louis Armstrong is being focused upon for the reason that he was selected in 1957 to be the King of the Zulus.  Zulu is known to have a reputation for being the very first Krewe to begin parading on Fat Tuesday.  Considering that Comus is known to be the very last Krewe to parade and then end with a magnificent ball brings things into a definite contrast.  Zulu is known for it's predominately black cultural embodiment whereas Comus has an entirely anglo-saxon basis, which in fact led to it's disbanding when Comus was faced with the 1991 city ordinance making it a requirement that the organization may not discriminate based on race, religion, gender or sexual orientation, in order to obtain parade permits and other public licensure. This is where it might be interesting to look at each of their historical parade routes.  I researched this for sometime and found the end of the Comus route was essentially in front of the Maison Blanche department store.  This is why I think the boy dressed as a jockey is depicted on the clock's face.  The boy's posture looks very similar to that of Mr. Bingles who is depicted as flying on the front of the MB store.  His outstretched hand looks very much like a mitt.  His other arm is not in the same position as Mr. Bingles. Perhaps that's an indication of some distinctive visual clue drawn within the shape of his torso.  I've found that it looks like a hidden image of the old St. Jude church on Basin St.  As it turns out, Basin St. is a major part of the parade route for the Krewe of Zulu.  Along Basin St. from end to end, there are exactly 3 statues standing watch.

Mr. Bingles? Uh.. What ever happened to:

That is tied in 100%.  It's too close not to be.  My theory is it's being used just like some of the objects in Image 5, Chicago.  It helps define a path connection relating to a specific Krewe parade route.  Researching that is somewhat difficult, since much has changed in the Krewe lineup including some street changes since the early 80's.  There's a subtlety behind a clock at 12'oclock, as it is the only time that can be related to both the END of the day and the START of the day.  In terms of parade tradition, the first Krewe is Zulu, the last is Comus. There's much to be explored in that.  Lots of road names can be plucked out of the image and then the verse concludes with St. Louis.  I see a strong thematic suggestion of racial contrast with White and Black.  Zulu and Comus are a great choice when it comes to illustrating that.  The events related to McDonough schools and the Three makes a good case for a racial motif as well.  See the small line pointing to the III.  The verse mentioning "only three stand watch" fold around the idea that we must find 3 somethings.  My theory concludes with the three historic and distinctive statues of men along Basin St, ending at the spot where St. Louis Cemetary meets St. Louis street. Why can't clock boy be more than one thing?  A boy, a posture, a jockey (rider of something: to imply a horse, a race, a route, a float, etc.?), a costume, a hidden shape turned at 90 degrees, a direction (facing eastward?)...hard to say if it's to represent a single thing or a multiple thing.  It looks like Preiss chose a subject of rich implications. OR you can simply avoid all that historical basis and maintain the simple assessment that a random object is indicative of the immediate site of the casque or an iconic path leading one from point A to B.  Either way, it's a persuasive image.  Thanks for bringing us back to that, fox.

the clock resembles the face of Washington Artillery Hall on St. Charles demolished in '52. This is the place where Rex hopped off their ride named "Where jewels abound" for their reception and ball in 1906.

erexere wrote:: Why can't clock boy be more than one thing?  A boy, a posture, a jockey (rider of something: to imply a horse, a race, a route, a float, etc.?), a costume, a hidden shape turned at 90 degrees, a direction (facing eastward?)...hard to say if it's to represent a single thing or a multiple thing. Clock boy can, by all means, represent more than one thing or idea........but.......he can't be represented by more than one thing. He is either Mr. Bingles, some mural found in an alleyway, statue in Lafayette Square, etc... My money is still on that Lafayette statue. And, my money is still on the casque being in that Square.

Permit to dig in NO acquired.  Soon, weather and schedule permitting.  Thursday is a maybe.

And just where might you be digging? Good Luck! Unearth another one for these boards....and make sure to take lots of pictures.

I'm not doing the digging, but someone who read the book way back in the early days will be planting a new tree in it's place.  This try will be in the Basin street neutral ground near St. Louis street.

Kind of a random question... At the sites that have been solved, were all the clues from the images visible from the casque site? Or were some of them just clues to give a general location and only one actually at the site? I'm trying to pinpoint a location from image 7 but the visual clues seem pretty spread out.

I think some solves might have spread out clues and some might have close together ones.  Its going to be hardest to find a single  spot that fits lots of clues, and if you do you might either be really lucky or really unlucky.  The Chicago find had the fence visual nearest.  The rest of the visual clues were spread out but seemed to fit a basic perimeter.

Thanks e. I was just wondering if I should look at Storyland due to the flowers or if that may just be a clue that we're in the right vicinity. If that's the case it might be anywhere in City Park or right by the flowers. That isn't to say your site is wrong but I'm just keeping my options open. Hope you do find it at your site. I know you'll keep us posted.

Deuce wrote:: ...if I should look at Storyland due to the flowers or if that may just be a clue that we're in the right vicinity. If that's the case it might be anywhere in City Park or right by the flowers. This is the predicament, as with all of our 'solves' We have many visual confirmers in most of the images; but, without a correctly solved/interpreted verse to guide us, there is no way to know whether these 'confirmers' represent a path to follow, are visable from the dig site, outline a general vacinity, or are nothing at all. The one commonality in the solved verse/image combinations is the verse clearly points at a specific spot to dig. Whether the verse or the image (or some combination) actually outlines a path to take to get there or just describes the area is quite controversial, IMHO.

Oh yeah. I was predisposed to a path-based interpretation early on and by the time I got to the place where I would look to dig I had no more verse left to tell me what to do. We need to deepen our understanding and shed a few pounds.

Can't help noticing that the Reclining Mother and Child sculpture looks similar to the hand in P7. Any thoughts? That hand has more to it I can feel it.

my earliest thougths on the hand was its similarity to that on the Joan of Arc statue, but I've abandoned that theory.

How about jewels abound being in the the Museum of Art where there are 15 steps in the foyer?

I see the first line of any of these verses as our introduction to a place.  I expect that place to have a point of significance.  Verse 11 gives us the Wright Bros. and starting at their Wing memorial makes good sense.  Where we end up might be miles away but we still have a need for that information about the Wright Bros.  I think this verse is no different. Fox pointed out the Rex float list from 1906 (thanks Four21 for reminding us).  "Where Jewels Abound" is a parade float.  I suppose this is to tell us "At the City of New Orleans where a bunch of parade floats travel their routes".  Where we travel and where we end up finding the casque will have something to do either with Rex or with some particular parade route. I keep thinking "jewels abound" is a way of saying "many kings" and that makes really good sense given that the different Krewes each have their king.  Also, Louis Armstrong, portrayed by the white mask in the image, was one of the Mardi Gras Kings of the Krewe of Zulu. Also, I'm not positive but I think "Rex" is a reference to King.  I recall my mom's cat breed is a Devon Rex and I raised Rex Rabbits when I was a boy.  I think the name has something to do with their hair being really soft like royal clothing.

Ok. Just gonna throw an idea out there for debate. I have a couple of site ideas for NO and this is just one. Not sure how I feel about this but I wanted to share. What if the Museum of Art is the place where jewels abound. There are 15 steps(rows) in the foyer. Follow the steps straight out of the museum and continue down the middle of the median on Lelong Drive until the end. You come to two islands of grass at the entrance to City Park. One has the Monteleone Pillars and the other has the Beauregard Equestrian statue. Monteleone Hotel has the similar grandfather clock and Beauregard has ties to Morphy. Also Beauregard's horse is on three legs(only three stand watch). Between the pillars used to be the Allen Generes floral clock, removed in 1983. Standing at the top of the clock at the end of the Lelong median the 12 would be a 21(the middle of twenty-one). The minute hand in the image points just past the 12 directing us to look at the "V". The "V" may be an arrow to show our vantage point. Looking at the pillars and statue together from this position looks like the two middle wooden pillars of the clock with the figure on the hour hand in the center. Dig where you stand. Alright, now everyone tear this theory apart!

I like the three legs on the horse idea.  Did the horse have a name? I can see how you're pulling ideas together, it's a cool idea to start in a museum and see what comes next, fifteen stairs, and then squeeze in the City Park.  You're interpretation seems like it has a long ways to go yet.  Maybe you could try to look at the skyline or roof tops for a visual clue. Has anyone thought of "in the middle of TWEN T YONE to be the letter T?

erexere wrote:: Has anyone thought of "in the middle of TWEN T YONE to be the letter T? You are genius!! In 20 years, nobody has ever thought of this!

I don't have the slightest idea how the letter T works into this.  My basic notion is its a simple way of saying something is perpendicular, not that it helps any.

A cross?

Hirudiniforme wrote:: You are genius!! In 20 years, nobody has ever thought of this! Perhaps... because T is the 20th letter of the alphabet, not the 21st.

But that does sort of make sense in a weird way...

in verse 2, the word is hyphenated as twenty-one. how about roman numeral XXI ? That would give us an X.

Someday, maybe even now, someone will know why I'm saying this, because it only made sense to me a moment ago that verse 2 works and from its first line, a line about Kings, that the St. Louis the cemetery meeting the street St. Louis are the correct Preiss was referring to as they are namesakes of a King.  ...and I like writing floppy sentences. What I'm trying to say is I didn't know St. Louis was a King until a few moments ago when I looked up the artcle on the cathedral.

Here's another theory I have for NO. I like this one a little better. It still includes some of my other ideas. I'm still using the idea that the Museum of Art is "At the place where jewels abound/Fifteen rows down to the ground". And following my other idea, I think the view of Beauregard lets us know we're on the right track. Now from a birds-eye view use the museum as the center of the clock and the median and Beauregard as the minute hand. Now add the "alarm hand". It passes through a triangular shaped grass area. At each corner of this area is a rock with a number on it, 1, 2, and 3. There is a number 4 rock in the center (From end to end/Only three stand watch). The alarm hand passes through the middle of rock 2 and rock 1 (In the middle of twenty-one). This grass area also looks like the arrows in the image pointing to "preservation". The circle ends on Pigeon Island. My angle may not be perfect but you get the idea. "As the sound of friends/Fills the afternoon hours" may reference the Park View Terrace nearby. "Here is a sovereign people/Who build palaces to shelter/Their heads for a night!" I think we all agree this puts us in NO. "Gnomes admire/Fays delight/The namesakes meeting/Near this site." I always believed this line had more to it than just the gnomes and fays reference. I think using the first letters, G.A.F.D., we have the namesakes near the site. On Pigeon Island is the Colombier de Carol. It was made for the Dreyfous family. Specifically, G eorge A . and F elix D reyfous. Or G eorge A nd F elix D reyfous. It was refurbished in 2005 so any image 7 references may be lost. I think this island is our site. Only where do we dig? The clock angle would have to be exact if we use the circle as a reference. And the photos I have found don't show very much of the island. Any thoughts or critiques?

hi deuce, just a Q and I, Q: I understand Beauregard is a big figure in NO history, but can you explain what in the verse or image draws our focus onto him?  I reread you're last post and I'm still missing the beat on that, though I liked the three legs touching ground idea. Idea: the sound of friends = bands?  The word band could literally be used to describe a strip gathering a group together about the middle.  A group of people gathered to act in a common purpose is alternatively called a team or a troop, a corps, a gang, or a company.  Fills (hole terminology?) the afternoon hours are 12-6pm, a six hour period, or the hours 1,2,3,4,5,6.  Where is the "hole" in that?  Being synonymous with middle, perhaps 3 o'clock, is what is meant by "fills the afternoon hours".  I feel that line "in the middle of 21" has a way of suggesting "In the center or hole" of 21.  A hole is definable as an "aperture" which is the meaning of the word "Treme", the name of the neighborhood where I believe the casque is to be found.

I was and still am a little iffy on that whole Beauregard idea. I was drawn to that location by the floral clock that used to be there. I just so happened to notice that standing behind the pillars, Beauregard was in the middle and it reminded me of the hour hand and the two sides of the clock in the image. At this particular location, the 12 on the floral clock would be upside down making it 21. So i looked into it. Morphy's name was brought up in the search of Beauregard. Since there has been talk of Morphy I thought it might be relevant. But other than that I see no connection to anything. I think the hour hand would look a little more like a man on a horse if that's what it is. As far as the hour hand, I haven't seen much talk about what it might be showing us. I see the bicycles in it but that's all. There is a bike rack near the numbered rocks but they may not have been there in '82. Now using my overlaying clock idea, Beauregard would just be the end of the minute hand. Not sure if a reference to him would be needed in the verse.

I don't know if anything I'm finding has any relevance to the actual solution. But if I share what I find perhaps it will spark some ideas for someone else. We can't really rule anything out considering the casque is still out there.

Deuce, I applaud you're activity.  It's said there's the problem of no one doing any digging, that may be true, but I think it's really a problem of inspiration.  If you feel inspired by anything, please put it forth, even if you have some doubts.  If you feel really strongly about something, maybe some folks will also see the connection and then we'd have that agreement forest_blight recalls seeing when Egbert manifested a casque. I'm really hopeful I've got the right solution to NO, and the dig will happen soon.  I continue to think on it even though I feel extremely confident about the location, I still think there's interesting things about the verse and image left to pursue.

There are 3 bridges in the vicinity of Pigeon Island. Kind of where the 3 is on the clock. Just a thought. The sundial is also nearby. Don't know of any connection but its there.

With respect to Mardi Gras, I have only a weak understanding of the tradition.  I'm still not sure if each Krewe has it's own king and queen or if there's only one primary King and Queen.  I'm not sure how the selection process goes either. Much of this image is the purple background.  Purple is noted as a significant color to the Krewe of Rex. I had an idea that the flowers on the clock that look like the ones of City Park's Storyville might be only a way of repeating the theme of 1980, "Flora of the Realm". 1980 makes great sense because the 19th of February was Fat Tuesday.  The next most previous year where Fat Tuesday was the 19th was the year 1901.  Perhaps the 19 on the clock is only to pinpoint 1980, the year Preiss was burying the casque.

Keep the ideas flowing Duece...you are right in thinking they may spark something. And that doesn't mean your ideas are wrong either.  I am still one of those that believe the casque lays in Lafayette Square....BUT....if it isn't there, City Park sure is my second location. If you read far enough back, while I was in N.O. with family several years ago, I spent A LOT of time wandering around this beautiful park and actual dug next to a small sundial. This park definitely has all of the earmarkings of a good choice to bury a casque.

I would like to comment on NO. If we can come up with something solid or at least 90% I might be able to make a NO dig when im in Houston again.

fox wrote:: BUT....if it isn't there, City Park sure is my second location (City Park has the flowers, but Armstrong Park has the face, and there's that strange "right about St Louis" hint from Preiss. TBH though, I think the New Orleans casque is gone for good.)

hxxp://goo.gl/maps/G6vrK I've never really noticed that building in the corner of Jackson Square. The windows reminded me instantly of the III on the clockface, to which the seconds-hand points. I can't really find any information on it, though. It's interesting to me becuase is falls right in the middle of the quadrant of the square as outlined but the clock hands. By this I mean you can overlay the clock face onto the square and it matches the outline of the square's sidewalks, its perimeter, and the Artillery Park Amphitheatre. When orienting the image like this the park is broken into quadrants, and it 'pies-out' the quadrant between 12 and 3. Just a thought.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: I've never really noticed that building in the corner of Jackson Square. WhiteRabbit wrote:: ...in the background to Semele I think we're seeing the small building shown in this view: Reminds me of my Dame Blanche phase. But I'm starting to think that trying to figure out where this casque is based on similarities in the image is pointless...there are too many, and they're too widely spread out, to form any kind of picture trail. I reckon they're general references to New Orleans, some possibly directly relevant to the location, some probably not. The verse is going to be the only way.

I was musing on the deformed squares and thought of diamonds. Question: if "right about St Louis" was a cryptic hint rather than a confirmation of the city, it would most likely apply to the verse or image in the theory Preiss was responding to. Was this Image 9 Verse 2...?

WhiteRabbit wrote:: I was musing on the deformed squares and thought of diamonds. Question: if "right about St Louis" was a cryptic hint rather than a confirmation of the city, it would most likely apply to the verse or image in the theory Preiss was responding to. Was this Image 9 Verse 2...? I found the email Preiss sent with the "right about St Louis" quote. I could not however, find the email sent to Preiss before that. What exactly was said?

If only Johann would return to tell us.

Do we need him? I'm guessing it was I9 V2. I thought it was probably in there somewhere but I'm too lazy to plough through it all. I'm feeling more receptive to I7 V2 after considering that Sarmiento's quote about St Peter's might relate to St Peter St., which sweeps past my fave landmarks like Jackson, Preservation and Armstrong Park.

I'd like to share some, but the verse 2 thread seems to be broken... Are all the posts on the last page of v2 showing up for you? It stops loading halfway down for me, even though messages are being posted.

It does seem to be acting up.

...yeah, I PMed Mr Parry earlier, but meanwhile best continue here. Let's hear what you got.  :) (Deuce, Verse 2 broke after your last post so maybe you could try editing/deleting it to see if that helps...)

I'll try but four21 posted again after me last night. I saw it but now it's not there.

Deuce wrote:: I'm exhausted on this New Orleans site. By all means share. Or give a hint. Well, I really do think you all will have a fun time looking around, so my last post on V2 that didn't show up is as follows: I've already given you my three cents. Turn the image counterclockwise and gather the jewels! Gnomes would certainly admire you if you dared to dig.  D:) Check out the middle of the 21 jewel, and fence there: U n i  t  e d   S t a  t  e  s    o  f    A  m e  r  i  c  a 1 2 3 4 5 6   7 8 9 10 11 12  1314  15161718192021 I can hear the drums, and see them. And the St. Charles is no longer there. I would even say it's possible that the Charleston image might have been inspired by BP's visit hxxp://farm4.staticflickr.com/3500/4001884379_93649464be_z.jpg?zz=1 :o ... Unless I am crazy.

Well, did my clues above make sense? I really wanted you all to be able to piece it together yourselves. Do you want me instead to just spit it out?

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Have you been at the wacky baccy again? yes.

Have you been at the wacky baccy again?

Ah. In that case, I'll leave it to Erexere to figure out...

Did you see the poster at the link?

Too early on a Sunday for my brain to function properly!

Mm, yeah, not sure what you mean. Filmore West? Harlequin Park area?

I just thought the poster really obviously evoked the charleston image... no? The main portions all seem to map to each other - the lion, the dead, the fairy and her legs, triangle teeth with a star, the black circles on the fairy wings...

I saw the Greatful Dead poster..  You can follow the user specific posts from their profile. Click on show last posts by user.

erexere wrote:: I saw the Greatful Dead poster... But did you find the coin?

I'm lost now, I don't even know if we're working NO, SF or Charleston.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: I'm lost now, I don't even know if we're working NO, SF or Charleston. I was working on NO, and at my solve location I found that poster. It made me wonder if the poster inspired the Charleston image. This is a sidewalk running alongside the spot (it's practically jewels next to jewels):

Hirudiniforme wrote:: But did you find the coin? ... three cents . Start at the coin, find the sidewalk, start at jewelry, walk 21 from end to end on your left, go back to the middle, just across from gnomes, see the central image.

Nutz.

erexere wrote:: Nutz. I'm nutz? The theory is nutz? Nutz we won't be able to dig? Deez nutz?

So where is the jewelry sidewalk at?

My latest thoughts on the number 19 in the image, it is possible it represents the start day of Mardi Gras in 1980, Feb. 19th.  It also might be DAY&MONTH, 1 & 9, for November 1st, according to literal meaning (Novus = 9).  The interesting thing is the observance of All-Saints Day beginning at midnight is literally when the masks come off from Halloween.  Here in image 7 we have only an outstretched arm holding a mask, no longer wearing it, but raising it up to the midnight clock.  Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Deuce wrote:: So where is the jewelry sidewalk at? Running along side the building where jewels abound.

Ohhhhh...... Ok. Now I got it.

Deuce wrote:: Ohhhhh...... Ok. Now I got it. Great, where is it?

Its in New Orleans!!! I was being sarcastic. Can't get a straight answer.

If you really know just say it so we can move on to the other ones. Unless you plan on going there to get it then I understand.

The mint.

I'm off in my own corner here thinking about the LotJ and why it would mention the Summer Solstice day.  Then I considered how that is the Winter Solstice of the southern hemisphere.  Where does that put Honduras? I'm beginning to see that the No.21 can be related to both a particular tomb and the solstice days, such as June 21 and Dec. 21.  In the middle is another way of saying 45 degreez of 90.  Its the link between astronomic postion and holidays. Maybe it answers the question of why make use of a Sarmiento quote?

Hirudiniforme wrote:: The mint. Got it. Working on it.

I'm on the right track but not seeing your central image.

Seems to be Jackson Square... ...is that 15 rows...?

Does this theme reflect Mardi Gras in some way? If so, does Mardi Gras connect to the Roman God Mars? How might Mars represent No.1, "one" or "great in number" or "first"? Does the time of 12 midnight serve to say "first and last" or "beginning to end"? Does the word 'parade' fit the sound of friends in the afternoon hours?  Does parade fit with the word 'march'?

OK, so I have something for you to chew on: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2bmxhnvu46ynp ... 0coin.docx

Hirudiniforme wrote:: OK, so I have something for you to chew on: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2bmxhnvu46ynp ... 0coin.docx Unknown: I stumbled on a coin, which very much resembled the clock face’s 3 hour mark (i.e., III). The III was on the flipside and in the middle of 21 letters (United States of America), and had the O and the mysterious 8 from the clock hands. {image} The coin is the only 3-cent piece minted in the US, and it was minted in New Orleans. So, I looked for the New Orleans Mint (A) and found it to be just down the street from Jackson Square, and it has been since turned into a museum (1981). It was built on the grounds of Fort St. Charles, which was torn down to construct the mint. On the northwest corner of the mint building, on the sidewalk across the street (where Decatur St. meets Esplanade Ave.), there is a pattern of tiles inset in the sidewalk: {image of the word 'Jewelry' on a ceramic tile} This certainly seems like a place where jewels abound – the mint makes money and jewelry is stamped in the sidewalk. So, I look around for something to count. To the left of the jewelry tiles, surrounding the Mint, is a fence. It’s an irregular shape, but the side of the mint pictured has 21 fencing sections. If you walk straight up the sidewalk from the jewelry tiles and count out 21, you will be stopping at the next street corner, where you would find this: {image of sign on building which says 'GNOME'} So, I go back to the middle of the 21 fence sections, look towards the mint, and find: {image} The mint is just adjacent to the Port of New Orleans, Nicholls Wharf. The logo on the wharf is an anchor, just like the top of the clock hand above the mysterious 8. The first steamboat to come into port at New Orleans was the New Orleans. The famous reception of the steamboat to its namesake city occurred on January 10, 1812. Interestingly, on the opposite side of the building, there are 20 trees planted in 5 rows of 4 (3 vertical and 1 horizontal). In the middle of these is the only segment of fencing with 15 rungs around the entire mint. Directly in front of that segment, and in the middle of the 20 trees, are 3 flag poles (however, there is no place to dig): {image} For those without the newer version of WORD (which the .docx format requires), I'll post the text here.  The full file has images as well. (My copy-paste service here does not indicate any endorsement or agreement with its contents.)  Personally I was lost at step one, because I don't see "the mysterious 8 from the clock hands" anywhere on the coin.

catherwood wrote:: (My copy-paste service here does not indicate any endorsement or agreement with its contents.)  Personally I was lost at step one, because I don't see "the mysterious 8 from the clock hands" anywhere on the coin.

I would be excited bybthe numismatic prospect as well, but I'm not seeing the puzzle go that way.  I see the LotJ as a sharp kick in the right direction.  We have to glean some meaning from those words directly.  "Keep" is synonomous with "preservation or lodging".  When you buy groceries you hope they keep while you stop at the bar on your way home to play a few games of pool.  The man worked on the farm to earn his keep since he had no money to pay room and board.  I like the idea that "rare as a blue..." means "once in a blue moon".  I also like the Solstice reference in Midsummers Day since most solstice days are on the 21st day of their month. I also want to consider Preiss' hint "st.louid is right".  I think he wants us to find some context that involves St. Louis directly and has a "right angle" type solution.  Big visual hints to that effect are in the image.  See the Louis mask and the hands at 12 and 3 making a right angle. I see beginning and ending along with in the middle clues, but I don't see a strong connection to the mint.  I think we need to use a rooftop and involve a reference to sovereigns such as the Krewe of Rex.

That is a nice bit of clue gathering Four21Thrasher.  However, IMHO, the clues don't quite match exactly.  I doubt that the Image leads to an object (the coin) rather than a site directly.  Also, the number 8 on the clock is slightly more elongated than the 8 on the coin.  I would like to see the anchor you mention, to see if it matches the clock.  Also, a mint does not make jewels, nor does it contain jewels.  The Gnome sign is exciting, but not sure if it was there in 1980 (or the word "jewelry" for that matter). Please don't think I am trying to "shoot down" your idea - I think you did a great job.  This bulletin board is designed for people to bounce ideas off of it, to see what others think.  If the internet was around for the first 3 years of me picking up this book, I would not have spent every week for 3 years walking the streets of downtown Philadelphia trying to find a casque with the Cleveland Image.

Egbert wrote:: That is a nice bit of clue gathering Four21Thrasher.... Thanks for the feedback, Egbert. I understand the doubt, and I have quite a bit myself. However, like I said, I really think people would rather make some of the connections themselves, and then make their own decision. When I blither away, its easy to not cover or explain relations. I felt like if I just served some vegetables, people might be tempted to look around themselves to discover the meat. The Nicholls Street Wharf is next door to the mint, and the sign can easily be found on Google Images. Gnome's telephone number is on the web, along with their store hours.

Four21thrasher, I just had an in depth conversation with someone who was at the concert your poster references.  The Dead stayed at her house since her roommate dated the keyboardist.  She remembers they charged 2 buck for a show but then raised it to 3. Anyways, she likes your comparison too.

Verse 2 is still broken... I have been looking around New Orleans for row houses. The first and last of the houses in each row are called "ends." Shotgun Row, Julia Row, Cucullu Row... For instance, Julia Row has 13 rows. They all have fancy placards.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Verse 2 is still broken... I have been looking around New Orleans for row houses. The first and last of the houses in each row are called "ends." Shotgun Row, Julia Row, Cucullu Row... For instance, Julia Row has 13 rows. They all have fancy placards. Intriguing, yet fruitless.

I just found out about this hunt recently and I'm trying to catch up. Don't know if this has been mentioned before but, regarding the boy on the clock, doesn't it seem strange that the artist illustrated the pants going to the knee on one leg but ending at the thigh on the other. It would seem like it had to be deliberate. The boy has always looked a little strange with the protruding right buttock. I wonder if either the black space of the body or white negative spaces might be another map shape like those found in other images.

I'm not certain of what hidden shape the floating boy represents, but I agree that there's something there. Here's something I'm trying to evaluate, obviously not a perfect match to anything, but there's something nagging me about the composition.  Maybe someone can help break it down if there's anything to be found.  This is the medallian on the base of the Morazan statue.

Not sure what you're getting at, erexere. What do you see? I'm not sure if this has been pointed out before. We've been taking the "90" and "19" on the clock as clues to the longitudes enclosing the casque -- JJP has transposed numbers for latitudes/longitudes elsewhere, so this is no stretch. The "29" therefore is one of the bounding latitudes. Because there is no "28" or "30" it is ambiguous whether "29" is the southern or northern border for our search area. It could hardly be the northern border, because the area between 28 and 29 is all Gulf. That leaves 29 and 30 (maybe this is why JJP omitted the 30?). The interesting bit is that this slices off a good-sized chunk of northern New Orleans where we've considered looking before -- including, for instance, the entire Harlequin Park area and the upper half of City Park.

Remember those 21 raised planters (from end to end) along the riverfront in the French Quarter? Many online photos still show them, but here's one in which they appear to have all been razed to the ground. If our casque was indeed in the 11th one (in the middle of 21) and above ground, it's gone now. Or, it could still be there and simply easier to get to! Someone near N.O. ought to go there and dig in planter #11 before this happens: hxxp://www.reinventingthecrescent.org/ . In fact, this project might be why the planters were taken down.

I hesitate to compare a circle to a circle, and surely a square doesn't compare to a triangle, but there is a composition of elements that hits me on a deeper level.  Let's see if I can work out my thoughts.  I suppose it would be a preconcieved notion based on my conceptualization of standing on Basin street's neutral ground facing the apex of tomb No.21 (12 o'clock position) and then wondering what next piece of information is required to choose a point on the line.  The near 3 o'clock position would best fit the Morazan statue.  I just wonder if there's a solid visual confirmer to be found.  It occurs to me there's a fair amount of "three" related elements.  This is entirely speculative at this point, but there are three corners of the square having numbers.  The 29 and 90 are lat/long.  Out of all the suggestions for the 19, I've never really felt convinced.  It doesn't fit into the lat/long coordinate numbers, so it seems like a third wheel.  What if the lat/long are being integrated further?  If this were a right triangle, then we'd have one corner as a 90 degree, and the other two corners would sum to 90.  If we preserve the 19, then we would expect the other angle to be 71 degrees, but if we preserve the 29 we would expect the other angle to be 61 degrees.  I can't help but wonder if the number 61 is masquerading as a rotated 19.  The idea of a right triangle may serve to locate the casque by saying we need only two points to find the casque.  The other or additional idea might be built into both those points being literal triangles!  The pediment of tomb No. 21 is a triangle.  Morazan's emblem has a triangle.

forest_blight wrote:: Remember those 21 raised planters (from end to end) along the riverfront in the French Quarter? Many online photos still show them, but here's one in which they appear to have all been razed to the ground. If our casque was indeed in the 11th one (in the middle of 21) and above ground, it's gone now. Or, it could still be there and simply easier to get to! Someone near N.O. ought to go there and dig in planter #11 before this happens: hxxp://www.reinventingthecrescent.org/ . In fact, this project might be why the planters were taken down. Remember though, the treasures wouldn't be in one of those planters. In the middle of twenty-one, could mean 1 of 4 spots: 1) in the middle of the 21st planter (on the outside-side); 2) in the middle of the 21 planters, as measured from one end to the other (a spot that is not near a planter); 3) in the middle of the 10th and 11th planter; 4) in the middle of the 11th planter (on the outside-side);

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Remember though, the treasures wouldn't be in one of those planters. In the middle of twenty-one, could mean 1 of 4 spots: 1) in the middle of the 21st planter (on the outside-side); 2) in the middle of the 21 planters, as measured from one end to the other (a spot that is not near a planter); 3) in the middle of the 10th and 11th planter; 4) in the middle of the 11th planter (on the outside-side); It *could* be in a planter -- remember Cleveland?

Sure. But there is no way he put one on a box that a tree had just been planted in. There would be no way to dig it out within a year because of root growth.

forest_blight wrote:: It *could* be in a planter -- remember Cleveland? I was under the impression that clevleand was not in a planter. yes it was an enclosed area, but it was a support/foundation for the wall, and wasn't a planter.

I noticed these lines connecting the numbers in the box look like line segments.  I wonder if they fit together to form a triangle.

well any 3 lines can fit together to make a triangle. what makes those line special or noteworthy Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar... Sigmund Freud

maltedfalcon wrote:: Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar... Sigmund Freud NOT TO HER

maltedfalcon wrote:: well any 3 lines can fit together to make a triangle. what makes those line special or noteworthy That's funny.  I made two or three lattes for her back in the Portland coffee shop I worked at in 1997. I thought the three corners of the triangle might be defined by what the three corner numbers suggest, taking 19 as 61 (rotated 180), which complements the 29 and 90 for a right-triangle.

fox wrote:: NOT TO HER {img} Wow... first time I've seen this picture. How interesting that she is wearing the scarlet letter.

Trying a different side to the coin idea Hirudiniforme toyed with, I found the seal on the Morazan statue on Basin St. in New Orleans seemed to be the best fit, though I didn't know exactly why.  It looked like it faced very directly the line I was hoping to find something on, and it fit a basic pattern, that being the pediment of the tomb is also a triangle and the clock image has a circular shape.  Tomb No.21 belongs to the "Rouelle" family and that means "round" unless my French translation is off.  These all seem a bit generic and so I've been paying more attention to the verse and trying to find a better fit for the words "Namesakes meeting", which brings me to "AA meeting". Here's the Morazan Seal: Here's a 3 year AA coin: What I gathered about the origin of the AA symbol of triangle-circle, is that it was adopted in St. Louis in 1955.  In reading about the origin of AA, I learned of Bill Wilson and his having undergone treatment through the use of belladonna.  I thought those flowers on the clock look somewhat similar:

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Wow... first time I've seen this picture. How interesting that she is wearing the scarlet letter. Nice She's wearing it proudly I must say. Where is yours Bill?

fox wrote:: Where is yours Bill? Well, that depends on what the meaning of "is" is...

Lol. Perfect

Cask 7 NOLA: Gateway to the Americas theory. Recompiling. Line 1, jewels = something or someone precious, abound = great in number Lines 2 and 3 = find tomb No.21 amidst a row of 15 tombs; its roof can be seen from outside the cemetery Lines 4 and 5 = there are just 3 statues along the entire length of Basin street Lines 6 and 7 = in the middle of palm trees, sound = upright, friends = pals (palling), fills = palms (hand) may be filled or empty, afternoon hours = sun's high point = Arecaceae are characterized as sunburst formations atop high stems/trunks Lines 8, 9 and 10 = Sarmiento (S. American), sovereign = individual, palaces = tombs Lines 11 and 12 = looking up to Morazan in recognition of the "gateway" (entrance) to North America Lines 13 and 14 = "AA meeting" symbol resonates with the Morazan seal, representing New Orleans as the Gateway where the Americas (namesakes of Amerigo Vespucci) meet. -- Notes: gnomes are small, admiration may mean "look up at someone"...Morazan is 10 feet tall.  Fays delight = synonym for charm or entrance = gateway.  Even better, both gnomes and fays admire and delight in gardens and Mayor Chep Morrison's concept is called the "Gardens of the Americas".  Here's a short brief on the dedication of the three statues: hxxp://www.neworleanspubliclibrary.org/~nopl/exhibits/gateway/bolivar.htm This verse basically focuses strongly on three points: 1) line of sight on the top of a tomb, 2) standing in the middle of some palm trees, and 3) line of sight on the Morazan seal, matching the St. Louis AA symbol.

fyi.....you can google walk, New Orleans City Park now 1 Palm Drive New Orleans, LA 70124 this is in the gardens hxxp://goo.gl/maps/dA3tZ

milesstandish wrote:: I just found out about this hunt recently and I'm trying to catch up. Don't know if this has been mentioned before but, regarding the boy on the clock, doesn't it seem strange that the artist illustrated the pants going to the knee on one leg but ending at the thigh on the other. It would seem like it had to be deliberate. The boy has always looked a little strange with the protruding right buttock. I wonder if either the black space of the body or white negative spaces might be another map shape like those found in other images. I believe if you turn the boy upside down, the dark area that is his pants is a pretty good outline of the New Orleans area.  Perhaps someone with better graphic skills than I, can do a side-by-side posting, or even an overlay. https://maps.google.com/maps?q=726+St+Peter+St,+New+Orleans,+LA&hl=en≪=29.951365,-90.096817&spn=0.321863,0.676346&sll=27.698638,-83.804601&sspn=10.512921,21.643066&oq=726+st.+peter,+new&t=h&hnear=726+St+Peter+St,+New+Orleans,+Louisiana+70116&z=11 The "buttocks" side of his pants is the Mississippi River, and the other side is the land outline that borders Lake Pontchartrain.  Not sure if it is an exact much, but it appears that it could be close.

I think the bubblebutt is basically a torso/arms/legs drawn around this kind of basic hidden image, a box with a circle,

These threads are so long, I do not know if anyone else has discussed the Mardis Gras Fountain, which is located near the streets that are all named for jewels ("At the place where jewels abound").  I came across some photos which are similar to Image 7.  They appear to be some type of tiles or posters, representing different years of the Mardis Gras.  The 1929 on the clock face made me look for the 1929 poster.  Also take a look at a couple of the other pictures.  The tiles themselves are arranged, so that there are at least 21 of them (in the middle of 21?). hxxp://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/36678899.jpg hxxp://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/36678965.jpg hxxp://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/36679532.jpg

Interesting find...I like that 1929 plaque. Renovations as usual... hxxp://www.dei-engr.com/projects/mardi-gras-fountain/

Egbert wrote:: I believe if you turn the boy upside down, the dark area that is his pants is a pretty good outline of the New Orleans area.  Perhaps someone with better graphic skills than I, can do a side-by-side posting, or even an overlay. https://maps.google.com/maps?q=726+St+Peter+St,+New+Orleans,+LA&hl=en≪=29.951365,-90.096817&spn=0.321863,0.676346&sll=27.698638,-83.804601&sspn=10.512921,21.643066&oq=726+st.+peter,+new&t=h&hnear=726+St+Peter+St,+New+Orleans,+Louisiana+70116&z=11 The "buttocks" side of his pants is the Mississippi River, and the other side is the land outline that borders Lake Pontchartrain.  Not sure if it is an exact much, but it appears that it could be close. I am not good at doing graphics, but here is my attempt at what I am talking about:

Egbert, that's an attractive option.  Do you think there's more to consider or is that just for the purpose to draw us into a river/canal centric approach?  What about the line from the figure's lower hand connecting to his thigh?  It seems there's something more to found there. Also, what do you think of the "jockey" outfit?  That's definately a horse jockey minus the horse and it does look like the McDonough statue boy.  Using my trusty dictionary approach, I looked up the word 'jockey' and found it has a plain definition of "to trick or cheat".  I wonder if that's not a clue about Halloween, which pairs well with my ideas concerning festive holidays and that the white mask is portrayed as "coming off" at midnight.

I've checked out the Mardi Gras Fountain area too mostly because I haven't been able to get past the idea of the jewel street area being the place "where jewels abound." Also, from above, the fountain, taken together with the park across Lakeshore Dr., resembles the rough outline of the mask. I just haven't been able to make any of the other clues match. It looks like there are considerably more than 21 tiles, though we don't know what it looked like pre-renovation. Since the tiles represent Mardi Gras krewes, it's not unreasonable to imagine there might have been krewes named after gnomes or fairies or just mythical creatures in general. That's the best I can do to make another match. Has anyone else been able to find anything that matches this area?

I thought it was already established that the jewel neighborhood was too far north to be a match to the lat/long from the image. Maybe I missed something. Also, the sleeve from the arm holding the mask is a match to the Mississsippi River. Doubt it would be in the image twice.

Deuce wrote:: I thought it was already established that the jewel neighborhood was too far north to be a match to the lat/long from the image. Maybe I missed something. Also, the sleeve from the arm holding the mask is a match to the Mississsippi River. Doubt it would be in the image twice. I must have missed the part where that was "established." Although it is fun to go back and re-read the various threads, this thread has 75 pages, so I do not know if there is a consensus about where the casque is. As for the sleeve matching the Mississippi River, I do not see that as a match.  If you can show me where that is, it would be appreciated.  I thought the clockboy's butt is a pretty close match to the River. You would think that it is not a big deal, but if we can establish that one or the other is the Mississippi River, then we know that the other one that is not the Mississippi River could be a clue to something else. Has anyone suggested that the dog/dragon face is simply the state of Louisiana, upside down?  Both the Chicago and Cleveland images had States hidden in them.  This could be Louisiana.

Maybe a poor use of words on my part. I guess we can't really say anything is established in this thing. We have the numbers 19, 29, and 90. The longitude for all of NO is 90.XX. The latitude ranges from 29.XX to 30.XX. Given the numbers I think we can agree that we have to use the 90 and reverse the 19 to get 90-91 for longitude. As for the latitude, we have 29. That would give us a range of 29-30 or 28-29. Can't be the second one so we must use 29-30. Meaning anything over 30 can't be used. That would rule out pretty much anything north of the City Park tennis courts.

I don't think the longitude/latitude numbers are meant to be that strict. I believe they're very macro-level clues to get you to the right city. To support this idea, think of this: BP didn't have GPS; at best he had a World Atlas, which gave him a high-level set of general coordinates for each city. It's hard to imagine that he intended these clues to be so precise as to exclude one part of a city, since the average reader wouldn't have the ability to verify the exact coordinates of a given site, either.

Lets say he did only have an atlas. At the very very least the lat/long would be in tens (20, 30, 40...). Though I doubt any map would be that spread out. But for this we'll say that's all he had. If he wanted to generalize a location he would not use these rather precise numbers like 29. He would definitely see the latitude line for 30 degrees on any map and should know if the casque were north or south of it. Otherwise it would be too close to 30 on a cheap map to not just say "We'll use 30." But he used 29 which to says to me he knew the casque was south of the 30 degree line.

I fall into the "camp" that BP gave 2 numbers for coordinates to get you to a city, and nothing more.  Any "extra" coordinates are those that you have to reach for, to get, such as reversing a 2-digit number.  In this image, I would just say 29 and 90 are the coordinates.  Reversing the 19 is a bit of a stretch for me.  I believe that the 19 is just added to the Image to "hide" the coordinates.  For example, in this Image, it makes it look like the coordinates are part of a year - 1929.  I posted above a link to the 1929 image at the Mardis Gras fountain which looks strikingly like the shape of the turquoise jewel on the clock in the Image.  If that was intentional by BP or JJP, then there is the use of the 1929 year for you.  If it was unintentional, then I think the 1929 year is just an attempt to hide the 29. I do not believe we have ever done this exercise, but does every Image have 2 sets of coordinates, or just 1?  Perhaps going through the Images would settle this discussion.  If we have to turn numbers around to fit our needs, then that is the same as taking 982 and turning it into 289 (a train to an area code ). What about my other questions?  Is the sleeve the Mississippi River?  I don't see it.  I think the clock boy is a better fit.  What general area does the consensus believe contains the casque, and why?  Are we still near Preservation Hall?

I like the 19-29 as a yeardate.  Someone, I thinknit was Hirudiniforme or fox who found a mardi gras parade floating named "jewels abound".  I thought looking at the list of mardi gras themes from year to year might reveal some insight.  That plays with the premise of where a particular Krewe is at midnight...if that was something we could determine with relative ease in pre-google search days.

Maybe you're right but I think it's more narrowed down than that.

Egbert wrote:: I must have missed the part where that was "established." Although it is fun to go back and re-read the various threads, this thread has 75 pages, so I do not know if there is a consensus about where the casque is. As for the sleeve matching the Mississippi River, I do not see that as a match.  If you can show me where that is, it would be appreciated.  I thought the clockboy's butt is a pretty close match to the River. You would think that it is not a big deal, but if we can establish that one or the other is the Mississippi River, then we know that the other one that is not the Mississippi River could be a clue to something else. Has anyone suggested that the dog/dragon face is simply the state of Louisiana, upside down?  Both the Chicago and Cleveland images had States hidden in them.  This could be Louisiana. I turned the image upside down and the checkered background is warped alongside the clockface to give what looks like the western Louisiana boundary with Texas. This is confirmed because the 90 on the clock is where New Orleans is in Louisiana. ... and the 19 - 29 could simply indicate the Gulf of Mexico.

Most images have multiple numbers. Take image 1. It clearly has 122/123 and 37/38. Do you think he would narrow down some sites and not others? I'm just trying to get a consensus. It changes things if he only used coordinates to get us to a city. Then it could be anywhere in that city with no boundaries.

Egbert wrote:: I fall into the "camp" that BP gave 2 numbers for coordinates to get you to a city, and nothing more.  Any "extra" coordinates are those that you have to reach for, to get, such as reversing a 2-digit number.  In this image, I would just say 29 and 90 are the coordinates.  Reversing the 19 is a bit of a stretch for me.  I believe that the 19 is just added to the Image to "hide" the coordinates.  For example, in this Image, it makes it look like the coordinates are part of a year - 1929.  I posted above a link to the 1929 image at the Mardis Gras fountain which looks strikingly like the shape of the turquoise jewel on the clock in the Image.  If that was intentional by BP or JJP, then there is the use of the 1929 year for you.  If it was unintentional, then I think the 1929 year is just an attempt to hide the 29. Let us not forget the coordinates to your own casque. Cleveland is 41/81. How do we get 41 out of image 4? By "reversing a 2-digit number".

I just assumed the coordinates just get you to the general vicinity of the city, and are not exact.  So, the coordinates I was using were 42 and 81.  You would have to reverse the 14 to get the additional coordinates that the other "camp" wants to use. Are people saying that there are 4 coordinates in every Image?  I would like to know if that is correct.  Have we ever done some type of chart on that?

I made this chart several years ago. I don't know how much of it would still be regarded as valid. From what I understand, 2 latitudes and 2 longitudes are not always available, but when they are, they enclose the casque's location. (I'm in the reversible numbers camp.)

It looks like there are "box" coordinates in all the images.  It's highly ambiguous in some cases.  I've never given the Lat/Long's much consideration.  I'm too busy looking in between the lines for themes and dissociations that fool the passive mind.  Here's how I see it, and in most cases you only need three of the numbers to form a box, since the third may be implied, Based on what wk was saying about the coords here, I thought it might help apply to my Morazan statue idea by suggesting two Lat's sharing the same Long,

FB, that's a nice chart.  :)  Here is a link to a latitude longitude map of Ohio, showing Cleveland between 81 and 82, and 41 and 42. hxxp://www.mapsofworld.com/usa/states/ohio/lat-long.html If there are supposed to be 4 coordinates in each image, then why isn't there an 82?  Hmmmm.  Also, for St. Augustine, there is a clear number 30 as another coordinate.  It is on the face of the mountain, upside down. Sorry, I did not mean to hijack the Image 7 thread to discuss this.  Maybe we should move this to a different thread?  There used to be a "What has been found?" thread where we would discuss these things. As for New Orleans, which is Image 7, the city is definitely closer to 30 than 29.  Yet, we do not see a 30 in the Image. (unless you want to say the clock hand has a hidden 3 and 0 in it, but not touching - but that is a stretch). hxxp://www.mapsofworld.com/usa/states/louisiana/lat-long.html Not sure what to make of all this.  There definitely needs to be a 30 in Image 7 if you want to convince me that the coordinates are creating a boundary. EDIT:  Just noticed there are 30 stars.  Hmmm.

Who said there were supposed to be 4 coordinates in each picture? I'll take whatever JJP chose to give us. Some images apparently have no coordinates, but where numbers occur, the evidence suggests that most of them are latitudes and longitudes. I do buy your 30 theory. There are a few places in that image that could qualify as a 30. The 82 seems clear, but the others are either absent or too obscure to see. I don't believe P7 has a 30 in it, nor does it need to. The 29 is clear enough, and the other latitude clearly can't be 28 unless the casque is buried at sea. So it must be 30 by default.

Maybe we should include the moon?  That makes 31...a holiday that falls on the 31st of a month?

Exactly forest. Does that mean we should only look between 29 and 30? I say yes. Egbert, a lot of detail and intricacies went into this hunt. You know Preiss had the exact lat/long for each location. No doubt in my mind or he wouldn't have used them. Do you honestly think he would use 42 to just get us close to 41? 41 is all throughout Cleveland not 42. Why use 42 which is in Lake Erie and closer to Erie PA than Cleveland? And if only given 42 what tells us to not use 42 but use 41? Or even 43 for that matter which is Canada? If giving any kind of coordinates why give one thats one degree off from exact? I highly doubt Preiss looked at a map and said "41 is the latitude but lets use 42 instead so they're kind of close to Cleveland and then we'll put a 14 in there so some of them think it's a reversed 41 which is the right latitude but they shouldn't reverse numbers so it's wrong, but right. Then we'll do the same thing for another image and use 19 instead of 91. They'll never figure it out." Maybe ALL the coordinates are off by one degree. No wonder we can't find any more of these things. We're in the wrong spots. We need to be looking one degree outside of the given coordinates. Just take a guess which direction to go.

I understand your points.  However, maybe I am not making my case too clear.  Look at the latitude longitude map of Ohio that I linked to, above.  You will see that Cleveland is closer to the 82 longitude line than it is to the 81.  However, there is no 82 in Image 4.  So, BP is not even "boxing in" the entire city of Cleveland, let alone telling you where to look in the city itself.  There are 2 clear coordinates:  42 and 81.  That puts you "near" Cleveland.  What does the 41 coordinate do for you  - after you say that you should reverse the 14?  IMHO, nothing.  You are now on the 81 longitude line, between the 41 and 42 latitudes.  You are still the same distance from Cleveland that you were before you used the 41.  You are actually closer to Pennsylvania than Cleveland.  So, how did using this additional coordinate get you closer to the casque?  It does not tell you where in Cleveland it is.  It does not even tell you it is in Cleveland.  So, I am not sure what Deuce means when he implies that my theory takes us off by 1 degree. As for Image 7, if you are going to use 3 coordinates instead of 2, then you have the same thing I just pointed out with Cleveland.  You are on the 29 latitude line between the 90 and 91 longitudes, which is only "near" New Orleans, not in it.  What if you didn't use the 19 for 91, and just had the 2 coordinates of 29 and 90?  There would be no difference.  So, you can reverse numbers all you want, but I don't see how having more than 2 coordinates gets you any closer to the treasure.  I certainly do not agree that you should just "assume" the 4th coordinate if it is not in the Image.  So, I don't see how a certain part of New Orleans is excluded by the 3 coordinates shown (assuming that 19 is a coordinate of 91). Off the top of my head, I do not believe that any of the cities in question have a latitude or longitude line going through them, which would be the only way that having more than 2 coordinates would be of any help.  I agree that it appears that a few Images have more than 2 coordinates, but I don't see how they narrow down where in the city to look. In fact, in those Images where it is clear that there are additional numbers to use (such as Images 1 and 2), they are not "reversed."  But even in those Images, it doesn't get you closer to the treasure.  It gets you "near" the city.  Am I missing something here?

Dang.  I just noticed the "box" for Charleston doesn't work for the lighthouse I've been so focused on.  Its just a few miles or so outside the line.  Its looking like we are fishing for an unnecessary step to expect coords that contain the casque.  All we're going to get is a 100 mile approximation. Back to Image 7 and the 30 stars plus a moon =31 days of the month, one of which is a big day.  Does the word "Preservation" = Hall = Halloween? All Hallows Eve = All Saints Eve This plays too well with the LotJ mention of Midsummers Day. Its starting to sink in now how the hallowed and Saint connections to these holidays syncs with my theory about a cemetery named St. Louis.

As erexere pointed out, having four coordinates gives us a box which contains the city inside it. I don't think any coordinates are supposed to give an exact location to dig like x marks the spot, just box in a city where the dig site is located. I do understand your point in reference to some images only having 3 numbers which won't give us a box. Anyways lets just agree to disagree and get back to the more important stuff.